private list subscriptions

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private list subscriptions

Henri Yandell-3
Dumb question time.

Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing to
a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?

Or should we mandate that @apache are used?

Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
I'm suspecting not.

Thanks,

Hen
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Re: private list subscriptions

Suneel Marthi
+1 to use @apache.org addresses only.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dumb question time.
>
> Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing
> to
> a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
> podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?
>
> Or should we mandate that @apache are used?
>
> Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
> addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
> I'm suspecting not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen
>
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Re: private list subscriptions

Craig Russell-3
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell-3

> On May 20, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dumb question time.

I don't think the question is dumb.
>
> Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing to
> a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
> podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?
>
> Or should we mandate that @apache are used?

I don't think Apache should be interfering with peoples' email practices. People like to control the disposition of mail they receive. For example, subscribing different email addresses to different lists is for some a lot easier than trying to manage rules for which messages go into which folders.
>
> Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
> addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
> I'm suspecting not.

Private list subscriptions are always moderated. Moderators have an obligation to verify that the email address proposed to be subscribed to a list belongs to an authorized user. Authorized meaning that the email is registered to an Apache committer via the id.apache.org tool.

I'm personally responsible for moderating subscription lists and while it's somewhat of a nuisance, it's manageable. Comes with the moderator territory.

So I don't believe this is a problem. If you suspect that some subscribers to some private lists are not authorized, please raise this with infra.

Regards,

Craig
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen

Craig L Russell
[hidden email]


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Re: private list subscriptions

Craig Russell-3

> On May 20, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Craig Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On May 20, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dumb question time.
>
> I don't think the question is dumb.
>>
>> Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing to
>> a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
>> podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?
>>
>> Or should we mandate that @apache are used?
>
> I don't think Apache should be interfering with peoples' email practices. People like to control the disposition of mail they receive. For example, subscribing different email addresses to different lists is for some a lot easier than trying to manage rules for which messages go into which folders.
>>
>> Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
>> addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
>> I'm suspecting not.
>
> Private list subscriptions are always moderated. Moderators have an obligation to verify that the email address proposed to be subscribed to a list belongs to an authorized user. Authorized meaning that the email is registered to an Apache committer via the id.apache.org tool.

And I omitted: The moderator must then verify that the committer is authorized to subscribe to that list. Members can always subscribe to any list. Non-members can only subscribe to lists that their role entitles them to. For PMCs, PMC members can subscribe to [hidden email] lists. For Incubator, IPMC members can subscribe to any [hidden email] lists. For podlings, PPMC members can subscribe to [hidden email] lists.

Craig

P.S. I just tried to find documentation for the authorization for subscribing to PPMC mail lists and could not find it. So others might have a different opinion of who may subscribe to PPMC private lists. Or others might be able to find incubator policy that supports (or contradicts) my view.

>
> I'm personally responsible for moderating subscription lists and while it's somewhat of a nuisance, it's manageable. Comes with the moderator territory.
>
> So I don't believe this is a problem. If you suspect that some subscribers to some private lists are not authorized, please raise this with infra.
>
> Regards,
>
> Craig
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hen
>
> Craig L Russell
> [hidden email]
>

Craig L Russell
[hidden email]


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Re: private list subscriptions

Jim Jagielski
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell-3
I don't think it matters... People use their @a.o emails for
various reasons, as well as NOT use them for various reasons.
I don't think we should 2nd guess or, even worse, intrude on
people's ind. email practices, IMO.

> On May 20, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dumb question time.
>
> Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing to
> a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
> podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?
>
> Or should we mandate that @apache are used?
>
> Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
> addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
> I'm suspecting not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen


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Re: private list subscriptions

sebb-2-2
On 22 May 2017 at 12:58, Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't think it matters... People use their @a.o emails for
> various reasons, as well as NOT use them for various reasons.
> I don't think we should 2nd guess or, even worse, intrude on
> people's ind. email practices, IMO.
>
>> On May 20, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dumb question time.
>>
>> Should we encourage that @apache.org addresses are used when subscribing to
>> a private PMC list; and if not all PMC members have subscribed on a
>> podling, can one subscribe their @apache.org addresses for them?
>>
>> Or should we mandate that @apache are used?
>>
>> Does anything automatic happen that ensures that only committers'
>> addresses, or one of their preferred alternative addresses, are being used?
>> I'm suspecting not.

Whimsy auto-subscribe only allows committers to use their ASF address
or the ones listed in thei LDAP record.

For manual moderation, I assume that moderators will check that the
address belongs to valid account somehow.

There may be other ways for moderators to ascertain that an address
which is not in LDAP is nevertheless valid.


>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hen
>
>
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Re: private list subscriptions

Jim Jagielski

> On May 22, 2017, at 12:43 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Whimsy auto-subscribe only allows committers to use their ASF address
> or the ones listed in thei LDAP record.
>

That seems, to me, a restriction that Whimsy should fix...
None of my subscriptions to any private PMC lists that I'm on
are with my a.o address, and I'm guessing I'm not unique there.


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Re: private list subscriptions

Sam Ruby
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On May 22, 2017, at 12:43 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Whimsy auto-subscribe only allows committers to use their ASF address
>> or the ones listed in thei LDAP record.
>
> That seems, to me, a restriction that Whimsy should fix...
> None of my subscriptions to any private PMC lists that I'm on
> are with my a.o address, and I'm guessing I'm not unique there.

Any email address you add via id.apache.org may be accessed via the
dropdown at https://whimsy.apache.org/committers/subscribe

- Sam Ruby

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Re: private list subscriptions

sebb-2-2
On 22 May 2017 at 21:40, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On May 22, 2017, at 12:43 PM, sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Whimsy auto-subscribe only allows committers to use their ASF address
>>> or the ones listed in thei LDAP record.

FTR, the mail address attributes in LDAP (and id.a.o) are:

mail: - where ASF mail is sent ("Forwarding email address")
asf-altEmail: alternate emails for subscriptions etc ("Alias address")

The above can be changed (or new entries added) in id.a.o.

[The asf-committer-email entry is a special entry holding the user's
ASF e-mail address.
This is not visible in id.a.o, and cannot be changed]

>>
>> That seems, to me, a restriction that Whimsy should fix...
>> None of my subscriptions to any private PMC lists that I'm on
>> are with my a.o address, and I'm guessing I'm not unique there.
>
> Any email address you add via id.apache.org may be accessed via the
> dropdown at https://whimsy.apache.org/committers/subscribe
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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