Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

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Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
TL;DR: podling membership lists are being consolidated to LDAP, podling
mentor lists remain in podlings.xml; the whimsy roster tool is being
updated to become a one-stop-shop that can be used to update everything.

For the impatient, a link:

https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/trafodion

Feedback welcome on the proposal below.  Fair warning: I'll treat any
lack of input as lazy consensus.  :-)

--- Background ---

In the past, we've had a number of ad-hoc ways of keeping track of who
is on on a PPMC, and made policies based on the difficultly involved in
keeping track of memberships.

For example, JIRA requests to add svn access control lists to PPMCs
(even ones that use only git!) in order to have the lists be reflected
on the phonebook app.  And to have every committer on the IPMC have
update access to all podlings.

Now we are moving towards making PPMCs more like PMCs, where the key
differences are intentional - for example the addition of mentors and
not being listed in commitee-info.txt.

Gitbox has been updated, our ponymail installation has been updated, our
svn server will be updated soon.  Other services will be updated as well.

--- Roster tool ---

Now to the primary subject of this email: the roster tool.

If you go to the link above, you will see a list of mentors and a list
of PPMC members.  By early next week, a separate list of committers will
be shown when that list happens to be different than the list of PPMC
members.

Adding a new committer, PPMC member, or mentors should be a matter a few
mouse clicks and selecting the name.  LDAP and/or podlings.xml will be
updated on your behalf.

If you treat each of those lists (committer, PPMC member, and mentors)
as separate, there are 2^3 possible combinations.  If you subtract the
current state, there are still 7 possible new states for every change.
 From a coding perspective, that's manageable, but having that many
options makes the tool harder to use, and increases the possibility of
human error.

For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.

Note: in the rare cases where the various lists are inconsistent,
additional options will be presented.  The link above has examples of
mentors who are currently not members of the PPMC.

--- Access control ---

A final topic is access control.  Public views of the underlying data
will be made possible through the phonebook application.  Any committer
will be able to see the roster tool.  The key question left is updating.

Specifically:

1) Who should be able to add/remove mentors?  My initial assumption is
any IPMC member.

2) Who is eligible to be added as a mentor?  Again, my assumption is any
IPMC member.

3) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC members?  My assumption is any
member of the PPMC.

4) Who is eligible to be added as a PPMC member?  My assumption is any
ASF committer.

5) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC committers?  Again, my
assumption is any member of the PPMC.

6) Who is eligible to be added as a PPMC committer?  Again, my
assumption is any ASF committer.

Feedback on these assumptions welcome.  Any change to mentors and/or
PPMC members will result in a notification to the private incubator
mailing list.  Any change to PPMC members and committers will result in
a notification to the infrastructure team.  Any change at all will
result in a notification to the private mailing PPMC mailing list.

Related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-90; which might
not be practical as stated due to difference in access control between
the various lists.  Even if that turns out to be the case, a tool can be
created to identify differences and enable bulk updating.

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Carlos Santana
+100 to the following simplification:
For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.

- Carlos Santana
@csantanapr

> On May 26, 2017, at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Julian Hyde-3
+1

> On May 26, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Carlos Santana <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> +100 to the following simplification:
> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>
> - Carlos Santana
> @csantanapr
>
>> On May 26, 2017, at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

John D. Ament-2
In reply to this post by Sam Ruby
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> TL;DR: podling membership lists are being consolidated to LDAP, podling
> mentor lists remain in podlings.xml; the whimsy roster tool is being
> updated to become a one-stop-shop that can be used to update everything.
>
> For the impatient, a link:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/trafodion
>
> Feedback welcome on the proposal below.  Fair warning: I'll treat any
> lack of input as lazy consensus.  :-)
>
> --- Background ---
>
> In the past, we've had a number of ad-hoc ways of keeping track of who
> is on on a PPMC, and made policies based on the difficultly involved in
> keeping track of memberships.
>
> For example, JIRA requests to add svn access control lists to PPMCs
> (even ones that use only git!) in order to have the lists be reflected
> on the phonebook app.  And to have every committer on the IPMC have
> update access to all podlings.
>
> Now we are moving towards making PPMCs more like PMCs, where the key
> differences are intentional - for example the addition of mentors and
> not being listed in commitee-info.txt.
>
> Gitbox has been updated, our ponymail installation has been updated, our
> svn server will be updated soon.  Other services will be updated as well.
>
>
What about regular git-wip-us?


> --- Roster tool ---
>
> Now to the primary subject of this email: the roster tool.
>
> If you go to the link above, you will see a list of mentors and a list
> of PPMC members.  By early next week, a separate list of committers will
> be shown when that list happens to be different than the list of PPMC
> members.
>

It may be better to link to https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/ rather
than a specific project.


>
> Adding a new committer, PPMC member, or mentors should be a matter a few
> mouse clicks and selecting the name.  LDAP and/or podlings.xml will be
> updated on your behalf.
>
>
FWIW, I just tried adding you as a mentor to a podling, it failed with a
500 ISE.


> If you treat each of those lists (committer, PPMC member, and mentors)
> as separate, there are 2^3 possible combinations.  If you subtract the
> current state, there are still 7 possible new states for every change.
>  From a coding perspective, that's manageable, but having that many
> options makes the tool harder to use, and increases the possibility of
> human error.
>
> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
> mentors are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>
>
Fair assumption.


> Note: in the rare cases where the various lists are inconsistent,
> additional options will be presented.  The link above has examples of
> mentors who are currently not members of the PPMC.
>
> --- Access control ---
>
> A final topic is access control.  Public views of the underlying data
> will be made possible through the phonebook application.  Any committer
> will be able to see the roster tool.  The key question left is updating.
>
> Specifically:
>
> 1) Who should be able to add/remove mentors?  My initial assumption is
> any IPMC member.
>
>
Agreed.


> 2) Who is eligible to be added as a mentor?  Again, my assumption is any
> IPMC member.
>

Agreed.


>
> 3) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC members?  My assumption is any
> member of the PPMC.
>

Disagree.  The PPMC may add a member if there is a check that a NOTICE was
sent and received >= 72 hours ago.  If that check is not in place I feel it
is up to mentors only.


>
> 4) Who is eligible to be added as a PPMC member?  My assumption is any
> ASF committer.
>

Agreed.


>
> 5) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC committers?  Again, my
> assumption is any member of the PPMC.
>

The term "PPMC committers" is hard to follow.  "podling committer" may make
more sense, or simply committer.  There may be cases that an IPMC member
needs to add a committer.  In this case, they can just add themselves as
mentor to do it.  Its a little bit of a loophole.


>
> 6) Who is eligible to be added as a PPMC committer?  Again, my
> assumption is any ASF committer.
>

Most of the time committers to a podling are new to the ASF.  Can the
processes that secretary runs include adding to a podling?


>
> Feedback on these assumptions welcome.  Any change to mentors and/or
> PPMC members will result in a notification to the private incubator
> mailing list.  Any change to PPMC members and committers will result in
> a notification to the infrastructure team.  Any change at all will
> result in a notification to the private mailing PPMC mailing list.
>

I'm not sure why infra is getting notified but IPMC is not notified, about
committers.  Does infra have a requirement to be notified?


>
> Related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-90; which might
> not be practical as stated due to difference in access control between
> the various lists.  Even if that turns out to be the case, a tool can be
> created to identify differences and enable bulk updating.
>
>
I'm not sure how that's relevant to this email, maybe you should keep
discussions around the design and development of whimsy on the dev@whimsical
list, or just reply to the JIRA and the reporter will follow up.

FWIW, until we fix all permissions to be based on podling, we need podling
committers added to incubator.  In addition, the incubator website is meant
to be maintained by any incubator committer so that sort of assumes they're
in the incubator group.  If the issue is auto removal, I'll point out
that's something you raised and wasn't a requirement going in (and in fact,
people stay on incubator even after their podling has graduated).


> - Sam Ruby
>
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 9:19 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Gitbox has been updated, our ponymail installation has been updated, our
>> svn server will be updated soon.  Other services will be updated as well.
>>
> What about regular git-wip-us?

Probably, but if not, it will be soon.

>> Adding a new committer, PPMC member, or mentors should be a matter a few
>> mouse clicks and selecting the name.  LDAP and/or podlings.xml will be
>> updated on your behalf.
>>
> FWIW, I just tried adding you as a mentor to a podling, it failed with a
> 500 ISE.

I neglected to mention that that isn't implemented yet.  See lines 1
through 3 of the following:

https://github.com/apache/whimsy/blob/master/www/roster/views/actions/ppmc.json.rb

>> 3) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC members?  My assumption is any
>> member of the PPMC.
>
> Disagree.  The PPMC may add a member if there is a check that a NOTICE was
> sent and received >= 72 hours ago.  If that check is not in place I feel it
> is up to mentors only.

Ack.

>> 5) Who should be able to add/remove PPMC committers?  Again, my
>> assumption is any member of the PPMC.
>
> The term "PPMC committers" is hard to follow.  "podling committer" may make
> more sense, or simply committer.  There may be cases that an IPMC member
> needs to add a committer.  In this case, they can just add themselves as
> mentor to do it.  Its a little bit of a loophole.

Ack on nomenclature.

I'm OK with that loophole.

>> 6) Who is eligible to be added as a PPMC committer?  Again, my
>> assumption is any ASF committer.
>
> Most of the time committers to a podling are new to the ASF.  Can the
> processes that secretary runs include adding to a podling?

Interesting question!

Essentially, the secretary makes use of the new account request form,
so the question is whether or not the new account request form can
include both the podling name as well as the PMC name (which in this
case is incubator).  I'll look into it.

>> Feedback on these assumptions welcome.  Any change to mentors and/or
>> PPMC members will result in a notification to the private incubator
>> mailing list.  Any change to PPMC members and committers will result in
>> a notification to the infrastructure team.  Any change at all will
>> result in a notification to the private mailing PPMC mailing list.
>
> I'm not sure why infra is getting notified but IPMC is not notified, about
> committers.  Does infra have a requirement to be notified?

If the incubator wants to be notified about committer changes, that
can be accommodated.

The infrastructure team has requested to be notified on all LDAP changes.

>> Related: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-90; which might
>> not be practical as stated due to difference in access control between
>> the various lists.  Even if that turns out to be the case, a tool can be
>> created to identify differences and enable bulk updating.
>>
> I'm not sure how that's relevant to this email, maybe you should keep
> discussions around the design and development of whimsy on the dev@whimsical
> list, or just reply to the JIRA and the reporter will follow up.

See question 5 above.  If PPMC members who don't happen to be IPMC
members are authorized to add committers, they will be unable to
update the list of committers for the incubator.

I see this as an incubator policy question, not a whimsy implementation detail.

> FWIW, until we fix all permissions to be based on podling, we need podling
> committers added to incubator.  In addition, the incubator website is meant
> to be maintained by any incubator committer so that sort of assumes they're
> in the incubator group.  If the issue is auto removal, I'll point out
> that's something you raised and wasn't a requirement going in (and in fact,
> people stay on incubator even after their podling has graduated).

No, the issue is that the person issuing the request may not be
authorized to make the changes.  Sorry I wasn't clearer on this point
initially.

Autoremoval was just a question.  If the incubator wishes to have an
ever growing list, that's fine with me.

Another possibility might be to open the incubator website to all
committers, and fix all other permissions to be based on podlings.

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 9:19 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Adding a new committer, PPMC member, or mentors should be a matter a few
>>> mouse clicks and selecting the name.  LDAP and/or podlings.xml will be
>>> updated on your behalf.
>>>
>> FWIW, I just tried adding you as a mentor to a podling, it failed with a
>> 500 ISE.
>
> I neglected to mention that that isn't implemented yet.

Should now be working.

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
In reply to this post by Sam Ruby
On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors
> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.

Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

sebb-2-2
On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all mentors
>> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>
> Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck

"Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
AFAIK, that should not happen.
Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings directly.
New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing processes.
I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
committer list so they have the appropriate karma.

"Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
committer of any podling"
Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
incubation, so this list will continue growing.
Does that matter?

> - Sam Ruby
>
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

John D. Ament-2
On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
> mentors
> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
> >
> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
>
> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
> AFAIK, that should not happen.
> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings directly.
> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing
> processes.
> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
>
>
Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add these
individuals.


> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
> committer of any podling"
> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
> Does that matter?
>
>
I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of adding
someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already graduated
but I still had my incubator commit bit.

The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.  I feel
like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but unless
those people are members they're probably going to be removed from their
mentor roles.  What do others think?


> > - Sam Ruby
> >
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

sebb-2-2
On 11 June 2017 at 12:58, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
>> mentors
>> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>> >
>> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
>> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
>>
>> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
>> AFAIK, that should not happen.
>> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings directly.
>> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing
>> processes.
>> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
>> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
>>
>>
> Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add these
> individuals.
>
>
>> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
>> committer of any podling"
>> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
>> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
>> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
>> Does that matter?
>>
>>
> I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of adding
> someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already graduated
> but I still had my incubator commit bit.
>
> The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.  I feel
> like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but unless
> those people are members they're probably going to be removed from their
> mentor roles.  What do others think?

The only one not currently an ASF member is:

https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/committer/devaraj

>
>> > - Sam Ruby
>> >
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
In reply to this post by John D. Ament-2
On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
>> mentors
>> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>> >
>> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
>> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
>>
>> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
>> AFAIK, that should not happen.
>> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings directly.
>> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing
>> processes.
>> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
>> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
>>
>>
> Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add these
> individuals.

You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.

>> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
>> committer of any podling"
>> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
>> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
>> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
>> Does that matter?
>>
> I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of adding
> someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already graduated
> but I still had my incubator commit bit.

Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been updated.

But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
incubator resources and do away with this list.

> The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.  I feel
> like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but unless
> those people are members they're probably going to be removed from their
> mentor roles.  What do others think?

The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
being added to the IPMC:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining

- Sam Ruby

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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Adina Crainiceanu
I just wanted to mention that in the "Incubator committers that are not on
the IPMC and are not listed as a committer of any podling" I noticed
multiple names (myself included - Adina Crainiceanu), who are committers on
active podlings and are still included in the list. For example, I am a
committer and PPMC member for Apache Rya (incubating). Not sure how the
list was generated, but not only committers of already graduated podlings
are on the list, but also committers of active podlings. Maybe because
those people are part of the PPMC of a podling and therefore they are
implicit committers, but somehow they were not considered committers for
the purpose of generating the list.  (I believe that the assumption that
all PPMC members are commiters is/should be true)

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that all
> >> mentors
> >> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
> >> >
> >> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
> >>
> >> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
> >> AFAIK, that should not happen.
> >> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings
> directly.
> >> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing
> >> processes.
> >> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
> >> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
> >>
> >>
> > Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add these
> > individuals.
>
> You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.
>
> >> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
> >> committer of any podling"
> >> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
> >> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
> >> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
> >> Does that matter?
> >>
> > I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of adding
> > someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> > incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already
> graduated
> > but I still had my incubator commit bit.
>
> Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been
> updated.
>
> But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
> who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
> may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
> incubator resources and do away with this list.
>
> > The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.  I
> feel
> > like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but
> unless
> > those people are members they're probably going to be removed from their
> > mentor roles.  What do others think?
>
> The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
> points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
> being added to the IPMC:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
United States Naval Academy
410-293-6822
[hidden email]
http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

John D. Ament-2
Adina,

What podling are you on?

John

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just wanted to mention that in the "Incubator committers that are not on
> the IPMC and are not listed as a committer of any podling" I noticed
> multiple names (myself included - Adina Crainiceanu), who are committers on
> active podlings and are still included in the list. For example, I am a
> committer and PPMC member for Apache Rya (incubating). Not sure how the
> list was generated, but not only committers of already graduated podlings
> are on the list, but also committers of active podlings. Maybe because
> those people are part of the PPMC of a podling and therefore they are
> implicit committers, but somehow they were not considered committers for
> the purpose of generating the list.  (I believe that the assumption that
> all PPMC members are commiters is/should be true)
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that
> all
> > >> mentors
> > >> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> > >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
> > >>
> > >> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
> > >> AFAIK, that should not happen.
> > >> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings
> > directly.
> > >> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the existing
> > >> processes.
> > >> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
> > >> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add these
> > > individuals.
> >
> > You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.
> >
> > >> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed as a
> > >> committer of any podling"
> > >> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
> > >> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
> > >> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
> > >> Does that matter?
> > >>
> > > I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of adding
> > > someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> > > incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already
> > graduated
> > > but I still had my incubator commit bit.
> >
> > Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been
> > updated.
> >
> > But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
> > who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
> > may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
> > incubator resources and do away with this list.
> >
> > > The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.  I
> > feel
> > > like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but
> > unless
> > > those people are members they're probably going to be removed from
> their
> > > mentor roles.  What do others think?
> >
> > The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
> > points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
> > being added to the IPMC:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
> Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> United States Naval Academy
> 410-293-6822 <(410)%20293-6822>
> [hidden email]
> http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
>
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Adina Crainiceanu
John,

I'm a committer and PPMC member for Rya

Adina

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 12:23 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Adina,
>
> What podling are you on?
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I just wanted to mention that in the "Incubator committers that are not
> on
> > the IPMC and are not listed as a committer of any podling" I noticed
> > multiple names (myself included - Adina Crainiceanu), who are committers
> on
> > active podlings and are still included in the list. For example, I am a
> > committer and PPMC member for Apache Rya (incubating). Not sure how the
> > list was generated, but not only committers of already graduated podlings
> > are on the list, but also committers of active podlings. Maybe because
> > those people are part of the PPMC of a podling and therefore they are
> > implicit committers, but somehow they were not considered committers for
> > the purpose of generating the list.  (I believe that the assumption that
> > all PPMC members are commiters is/should be true)
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that
> > all
> > > >> mentors
> > > >> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> > > >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
> > > >>
> > > >> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
> > > >> AFAIK, that should not happen.
> > > >> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings
> > > directly.
> > > >> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the
> existing
> > > >> processes.
> > > >> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
> > > >> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add
> these
> > > > individuals.
> > >
> > > You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.
> > >
> > > >> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed
> as a
> > > >> committer of any podling"
> > > >> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
> > > >> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
> > > >> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
> > > >> Does that matter?
> > > >>
> > > > I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of
> adding
> > > > someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> > > > incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already
> > > graduated
> > > > but I still had my incubator commit bit.
> > >
> > > Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been
> > > updated.
> > >
> > > But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
> > > who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
> > > may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
> > > incubator resources and do away with this list.
> > >
> > > > The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.
> I
> > > feel
> > > > like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but
> > > unless
> > > > those people are members they're probably going to be removed from
> > their
> > > > mentor roles.  What do others think?
> > >
> > > The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
> > > points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
> > > being added to the IPMC:
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining
> > >
> > > - Sam Ruby
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
> > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> > United States Naval Academy
> > 410-293-6822 <(410)%20293-6822>
> > [hidden email]
> > http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
> >
>



--
Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
United States Naval Academy
410-293-6822
[hidden email]
http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

John D. Ament-2
Alright, we'll have to look, I was hoping it was something obvious but
everything about your setup looks correct.  And I should have known which
podling you were on - I think we even met at ACNA.

John

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 12:31 PM Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John,
>
> I'm a committer and PPMC member for Rya
>
> Adina
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 12:23 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Adina,
> >
> > What podling are you on?
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I just wanted to mention that in the "Incubator committers that are not
> > on
> > > the IPMC and are not listed as a committer of any podling" I noticed
> > > multiple names (myself included - Adina Crainiceanu), who are
> committers
> > on
> > > active podlings and are still included in the list. For example, I am a
> > > committer and PPMC member for Apache Rya (incubating). Not sure how the
> > > list was generated, but not only committers of already graduated
> podlings
> > > are on the list, but also committers of active podlings. Maybe because
> > > those people are part of the PPMC of a podling and therefore they are
> > > implicit committers, but somehow they were not considered committers
> for
> > > the purpose of generating the list.  (I believe that the assumption
> that
> > > all PPMC members are commiters is/should be true)
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption:
> that
> > > all
> > > > >> mentors
> > > > >> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
> > > > >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
> > > > >> AFAIK, that should not happen.
> > > > >> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings
> > > > directly.
> > > > >> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the
> > existing
> > > > >> processes.
> > > > >> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
> > > > >> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add
> > these
> > > > > individuals.
> > > >
> > > > You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.
> > > >
> > > > >> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed
> > as a
> > > > >> committer of any podling"
> > > > >> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
> > > > >> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
> > > > >> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
> > > > >> Does that matter?
> > > > >>
> > > > > I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of
> > adding
> > > > > someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
> > > > > incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already
> > > > graduated
> > > > > but I still had my incubator commit bit.
> > > >
> > > > Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been
> > > > updated.
> > > >
> > > > But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
> > > > who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
> > > > may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
> > > > incubator resources and do away with this list.
> > > >
> > > > > The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.
> > I
> > > > feel
> > > > > like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened
> but
> > > > unless
> > > > > those people are members they're probably going to be removed from
> > > their
> > > > > mentor roles.  What do others think?
> > > >
> > > > The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
> > > > points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
> > > > being added to the IPMC:
> > > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining
> > > >
> > > > - Sam Ruby
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
> > > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> > > United States Naval Academy
> > > 410-293-6822 <(410)%20293-6822> <(410)%20293-6822>
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
> Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> United States Naval Academy
> 410-293-6822 <(410)%20293-6822>
> [hidden email]
> http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
>
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Re: Updating PPMC rosters via whimsy

Sam Ruby
In reply to this post by Adina Crainiceanu
Sorry about that.  Fixed.  Thanks for reviewing the output!

- Sam Ruby

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John,
>
> I'm a committer and PPMC member for Rya
>
> Adina
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 12:23 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Adina,
>>
>> What podling are you on?
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:50 AM Adina Crainiceanu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I just wanted to mention that in the "Incubator committers that are not
>> on
>> > the IPMC and are not listed as a committer of any podling" I noticed
>> > multiple names (myself included - Adina Crainiceanu), who are committers
>> on
>> > active podlings and are still included in the list. For example, I am a
>> > committer and PPMC member for Apache Rya (incubating). Not sure how the
>> > list was generated, but not only committers of already graduated podlings
>> > are on the list, but also committers of active podlings. Maybe because
>> > those people are part of the PPMC of a podling and therefore they are
>> > implicit committers, but somehow they were not considered committers for
>> > the purpose of generating the list.  (I believe that the assumption that
>> > all PPMC members are commiters is/should be true)
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 7:58 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 5:58 AM sebb <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> On 11 June 2017 at 00:18, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > > >> > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sam Ruby <[hidden email]
>> >
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> For that reason, I'd like to make a simplifying assumption: that
>> > all
>> > > >> mentors
>> > > >> >> are PPMC members, and all PPMC members are committers.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Existing records that violate one or more assumptions:
>> > > >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/podling-crosscheck
>> > > >>
>> > > >> "Podling Committers that are not Incubator committers"
>> > > >> AFAIK, that should not happen.
>> > > >> Probably mostly existing ASF committers being added to podlings
>> > > directly.
>> > > >> New committers should be added to Incubator + podling by the
>> existing
>> > > >> processes.
>> > > >> I think it would make sense to just add them to the Incubator
>> > > >> committer list so they have the appropriate karma.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > > Agreed.  I appreciate the concise report.  We should plan to add
>> these
>> > > > individuals.
>> > >
>> > > You should be able to add them from the ppmc page.
>> > >
>> > > >> "Incubator committers that are not on the IPMC and are not listed
>> as a
>> > > >> committer of any podling"
>> > > >> Most likely they were on podlings that are no longer active.
>> > > >> I don't think any cleanup of the list is done when podlings exit
>> > > >> incubation, so this list will continue growing.
>> > > >> Does that matter?
>> > > >>
>> > > > I was thinking about this.  I think I mis-stated the behavior of
>> adding
>> > > > someone to the PPMC.  There is no requirement to remove them from
>> > > > incubator.  That's actually how I got started, my podling already
>> > > graduated
>> > > > but I still had my incubator commit bit.
>> > >
>> > > Some of that list is because not all of the podling rosters have been
>> > > updated.
>> > >
>> > > But if the plan is to have a monotonically increasing list of people
>> > > who ever were associated with a podling at any point in the past, it
>> > > may make sense to change things so that all committers have access to
>> > > incubator resources and do away with this list.
>> > >
>> > > > The list that does worry me is the list of mentors not on the IPMC.
>> I
>> > > feel
>> > > > like that requires a bit more research to find out what happened but
>> > > unless
>> > > > those people are members they're probably going to be removed from
>> > their
>> > > > mentor roles.  What do others think?
>> > >
>> > > The individuals should probably be evaluated separately.  As Sebb
>> > > points out, most are ASF members, and therefore are one ask away from
>> > > being added to the IPMC:
>> > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/pmc.html#joining
>> > >
>> > > - Sam Ruby
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
>> > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>> > United States Naval Academy
>> > 410-293-6822 <(410)%20293-6822>
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Adina Crainiceanu
> Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> United States Naval Academy
> 410-293-6822
> [hidden email]
> http://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/adina/

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