Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Chris Lambertus


On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:47 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Infra

Just as a heads up, there's an on going thread on general@incubator about podling setup.  One of the assumptions is that all IPMC members can use Self Serve [1] [2], however that is not the case.  I have updated the mentor guide to tell people to use the old way (JIRA tickets) if they cannot use it.


IPMC members can technically create GITBOX repos, although they may not see the podling in the dropdown if they are not associated (in LDAP) with the podling. PPMC members can create GITBOX repos for their associated projects.

Only pmc-chairs, root, and secretary can create GIT-WIP repos.


https://selfserve.apache.org is for creating GIT-WIP repos.

https://gitbox.apache.org is for creating GITBOX (r/w github) repos.


The miscommunication is in the selection of git-wip vs. gitbox repos. We have generally been asking that all new podlings go on gitbox, but there is clearly some confusion regarding the “self-serve” nomenclature and who can do what (including within infra!)


We’ll try and update the documentation on the actual self-serve pages to make it more indicative of the karma requirements, but I hope this clears up the issue for the Incubator. If you find any of the above to not be the case, please let Infra know so we can sort it out.


-Chris
ASF Infra





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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

John D. Ament-2
Chris,

As far as I know, self serve is for more than just git repos.  It also
supports JIRA requests, confluence, mailing lists.  Each of these are also
chair only and where the issue comes in.

John

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:04 PM Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:47 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Infra
>
> Just as a heads up, there's an on going thread on general@incubator about
> podling setup.  One of the assumptions is that all IPMC members can use
> Self Serve [1] [2], however that is not the case.  I have updated the
> mentor guide to tell people to use the old way (JIRA tickets) if they
> cannot use it.
>
>
>
> IPMC members can technically create GITBOX repos, although they may not
> see the podling in the dropdown if they are not associated (in LDAP) with
> the podling. PPMC members can create GITBOX repos for their associated
> projects.
>
> Only pmc-chairs, root, and secretary can create GIT-WIP repos.
>
>
> https://selfserve.apache.org is for creating GIT-WIP repos.
>
> https://gitbox.apache.org is for creating GITBOX (r/w github) repos.
>
>
> The miscommunication is in the selection of git-wip vs. gitbox repos. We
> have generally been asking that all new podlings go on gitbox, but there is
> clearly some confusion regarding the “self-serve” nomenclature and who can
> do what (including within infra!)
>
>
> We’ll try and update the documentation on the actual self-serve pages to
> make it more indicative of the karma requirements, but I hope this clears
> up the issue for the Incubator. If you find any of the above to not be the
> case, please let Infra know so we can sort it out.
>
>
> -Chris
> ASF Infra
>
>
>
>
> Please let me know if that's an OK approach.
>
> John
>
> [1]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16115
> [2]:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/170f57f68100e6099bdc37bc529e6250130f7570a1618ad0fc5d5ce1@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
>
>
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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Chris Lambertus
I am specifically referring to the creation of git repos with my reply, nothing else. You are correct in that the other selfserve.a.o tools for Jira, Confluence, lists, etc., are pmc-chairs, root, and secretary only. We will try and be more accurate about the karma specifics when closing issues as being “self service.”

-Chris







On Mar 9, 2018, at 1:07 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:

Chris,

As far as I know, self serve is for more than just git repos.  It also supports JIRA requests, confluence, mailing lists.  Each of these are also chair only and where the issue comes in.

John

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:04 PM Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:47 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Infra

Just as a heads up, there's an on going thread on general@incubator about podling setup.  One of the assumptions is that all IPMC members can use Self Serve [1] [2], however that is not the case.  I have updated the mentor guide to tell people to use the old way (JIRA tickets) if they cannot use it.


IPMC members can technically create GITBOX repos, although they may not see the podling in the dropdown if they are not associated (in LDAP) with the podling. PPMC members can create GITBOX repos for their associated projects.

Only pmc-chairs, root, and secretary can create GIT-WIP repos.


https://selfserve.apache.org is for creating GIT-WIP repos.

https://gitbox.apache.org is for creating GITBOX (r/w github) repos.


The miscommunication is in the selection of git-wip vs. gitbox repos. We have generally been asking that all new podlings go on gitbox, but there is clearly some confusion regarding the “self-serve” nomenclature and who can do what (including within infra!)


We’ll try and update the documentation on the actual self-serve pages to make it more indicative of the karma requirements, but I hope this clears up the issue for the Incubator. If you find any of the above to not be the case, please let Infra know so we can sort it out.


-Chris
ASF Infra


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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Mark Thomas
On 09/03/18 21:11, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> I am specifically referring to the creation of git repos with my reply,
> nothing else. You are correct in that the other selfserve.a.o tools for
> Jira, Confluence, lists, etc., are pmc-chairs, root, and secretary only.
> We will try and be more accurate about the karma specifics when closing
> issues as being “self service.”
>
> -Chris

Is there any chance of relaxing the restrictions there a little? I'm
thinking either to include members of the incubator PMC or, making it a
little wider - ASF members?

I get that this is increasing risk. I'm wondering if the benefit it
would give in terms of unblocking incubator mentors (and PMCs where the
Chair is unavailable) is worth that risk.

Mark



>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 1:07 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> As far as I know, self serve is for more than just git repos.  It also
>> supports JIRA requests, confluence, mailing lists.  Each of these are
>> also chair only and where the issue comes in.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:04 PM Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>     On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:47 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi Infra
>>>
>>>     Just as a heads up, there's an on going thread on
>>>     general@incubator about podling setup.  One of the assumptions is
>>>     that all IPMC members can use Self Serve [1] [2], however that is
>>>     not the case.  I have updated the mentor guide to tell people to
>>>     use the old way (JIRA tickets) if they cannot use it.
>>
>>
>>     IPMC members can technically create GITBOX repos, although they
>>     may not see the podling in the dropdown if they are not associated
>>     (in LDAP) with the podling. PPMC members can create GITBOX repos
>>     for their associated projects.
>>
>>     Only pmc-chairs, root, and secretary can create GIT-WIP repos.
>>
>>
>>     https://selfserve.apache.org <https://selfserve.apache.org/> is
>>     for creating GIT-WIP repos.
>>
>>     https://gitbox.apache.org <https://gitbox.apache.org/> is for
>>     creating GITBOX (r/w github) repos.
>>
>>
>>     The miscommunication is in the selection of git-wip vs. gitbox
>>     repos. We have generally been asking that all new podlings go on
>>     gitbox, but there is clearly some confusion regarding the
>>     “self-serve” nomenclature and who can do what (including within
>>     infra!)
>>
>>
>>     We’ll try and update the documentation on the actual self-serve
>>     pages to make it more indicative of the karma requirements, but I
>>     hope this clears up the issue for the Incubator. If you find any
>>     of the above to not be the case, please let Infra know so we can
>>     sort it out.
>>
>>
>>     -Chris
>>     ASF Infra
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>     Please let me know if that's an OK approach.
>>>
>>>     John
>>>
>>>     [1]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16115
>>>     [2]: https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/170f57f68100e6099bdc37bc529e6250130f7570a1618ad0fc5d5ce1@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>>>
>>>
>


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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Chris Lambertus


> On Mar 9, 2018, at 1:35 PM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 09/03/18 21:11, Chris Lambertus wrote:
>> I am specifically referring to the creation of git repos with my reply,
>> nothing else. You are correct in that the other selfserve.a.o tools for
>> Jira, Confluence, lists, etc., are pmc-chairs, root, and secretary only.
>> We will try and be more accurate about the karma specifics when closing
>> issues as being “self service.”
>>
>> -Chris
>
> Is there any chance of relaxing the restrictions there a little? I'm
> thinking either to include members of the incubator PMC or, making it a
> little wider - ASF members?
I think it’s worth a discussion. With the existing technology, I believe opening up to PMCs would also include PPMCs, and that’s where we feel the greatest risk would be, as PPMC members may not be fully aware of standards and procedures. My personal feeling is that adding the IPMC access to selfserve is warranted, since that is where the bulk of the requests tend to come from. Others in Infra may feel differently. I’d encourage some discussion here pro or con, and see where we land.


> I get that this is increasing risk. I'm wondering if the benefit it
> would give in terms of unblocking incubator mentors (and PMCs where the
> Chair is unavailable) is worth that risk.


My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create these resources at any given time.

-Chris




>
> Mark
>
>
>
>>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 1:07 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> As far as I know, self serve is for more than just git repos.  It also
>>> supports JIRA requests, confluence, mailing lists.  Each of these are
>>> also chair only and where the issue comes in.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:04 PM Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>    On Mar 9, 2018, at 2:47 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]
>>>>    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Hi Infra
>>>>
>>>>    Just as a heads up, there's an on going thread on
>>>>    general@incubator about podling setup.  One of the assumptions is
>>>>    that all IPMC members can use Self Serve [1] [2], however that is
>>>>    not the case.  I have updated the mentor guide to tell people to
>>>>    use the old way (JIRA tickets) if they cannot use it.
>>>
>>>
>>>    IPMC members can technically create GITBOX repos, although they
>>>    may not see the podling in the dropdown if they are not associated
>>>    (in LDAP) with the podling. PPMC members can create GITBOX repos
>>>    for their associated projects.
>>>
>>>    Only pmc-chairs, root, and secretary can create GIT-WIP repos.
>>>
>>>
>>>    https://selfserve.apache.org <https://selfserve.apache.org/> is
>>>    for creating GIT-WIP repos.
>>>
>>>    https://gitbox.apache.org <https://gitbox.apache.org/> is for
>>>    creating GITBOX (r/w github) repos.
>>>
>>>
>>>    The miscommunication is in the selection of git-wip vs. gitbox
>>>    repos. We have generally been asking that all new podlings go on
>>>    gitbox, but there is clearly some confusion regarding the
>>>    “self-serve” nomenclature and who can do what (including within
>>>    infra!)
>>>
>>>
>>>    We’ll try and update the documentation on the actual self-serve
>>>    pages to make it more indicative of the karma requirements, but I
>>>    hope this clears up the issue for the Incubator. If you find any
>>>    of the above to not be the case, please let Infra know so we can
>>>    sort it out.
>>>
>>>
>>>    -Chris
>>>    ASF Infra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Please let me know if that's an OK approach.
>>>>
>>>>    John
>>>>
>>>>    [1]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-16115
>>>>    [2]: https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/170f57f68100e6099bdc37bc529e6250130f7570a1618ad0fc5d5ce1@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Mark Thomas
On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:

>
>
>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 1:35 PM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/03/18 21:11, Chris Lambertus wrote:
>>> I am specifically referring to the creation of git repos with my reply,
>>> nothing else. You are correct in that the other selfserve.a.o tools for
>>> Jira, Confluence, lists, etc., are pmc-chairs, root, and secretary only.
>>> We will try and be more accurate about the karma specifics when closing
>>> issues as being “self service.”
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>
>> Is there any chance of relaxing the restrictions there a little? I'm
>> thinking either to include members of the incubator PMC or, making it a
>> little wider - ASF members?
>
> I think it’s worth a discussion. With the existing technology, I believe opening up to PMCs would also include PPMCs, and that’s where we feel the greatest risk would be, as PPMC members may not be fully aware of standards and procedures. My personal feeling is that adding the IPMC access to selfserve is warranted, since that is where the bulk of the requests tend to come from. Others in Infra may feel differently. I’d encourage some discussion here pro or con, and see where we land.

I agree opening it up to all PMC and PPMC members would create too much
risk.

>> I get that this is increasing risk. I'm wondering if the benefit it
>> would give in terms of unblocking incubator mentors (and PMCs where the
>> Chair is unavailable) is worth that risk.
>
>
> My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create these resources at any given time.

Quite frequently this is the case but there are also a fair number of
instances where this is not the case for some projects. I certainly have
had to fill in for a PMC chair a few times using my infra karma. Rather
than relying on another PMC chair or officer happening to be around, or
on a mentor also being a PMC chair or officer, I'd like to see this
opened up a little.

We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
they don't know.

Opening this up to include ASF members addresses all of the instances I
can think of:
- it would include all podling mentors since they must be ASF members
- it would include the IPMC for the same reason, allowing them to
  back-stop the mentors if required
- it would enable ASF members on PMCs to provide cover if the PMC chair
  was unavailable.

Mark

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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Greg Stein-4
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any
> project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that
> specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create
> these resources at any given time.
>
>...

> We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
> sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
> standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
> they don't know.
>

There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears that
our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(

We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking issue for
it.

Thanks,
-g
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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

John D. Ament-2
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 9:23 AM Greg Stein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> > > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any
> > project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that
> > specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create
> > these resources at any given time.
> >
> >...
>
> > We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
> > sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
> > standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
> > they don't know.
> >
>
> There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears that
> our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(
>
> We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking issue for
> it.
>

Thanks Greg & Infra Team!


>
> Thanks,
> -g
>
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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Chris Lambertus
In reply to this post by Greg Stein-4


On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Greg Stein <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create these resources at any given time.
>... 
We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
they don't know.

There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears that our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(

We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking issue for it.



We’ve implemented a workaround for the LDAP issue. Selfserve now allows Members as well as PMC chairs to create resources.

-Chris





Thanks,
-g



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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Julian Hyde-3
It was I who originally raised this issue. I didn’t expect much to be done. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Thank you to John Ament, Mark Thomas, Greg Stein and Chris Lambertus (and maybe others I am unaware of) for each picking up the baton and driving this issue to a solution.

Julian


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Greg Stein <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
>> > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create these resources at any given time.
>> >...
>> We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
>> sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
>> standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
>> they don't know.
>>
>> There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears that our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(
>>
>> We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking issue for it.
>
>
>
> We’ve implemented a workaround for the LDAP issue. Selfserve now allows Members as well as PMC chairs to create resources.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -g

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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Mark Thomas
In reply to this post by Chris Lambertus
On 12/03/18 18:36, Chris Lambertus wrote:

>
>
>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Greg Stein <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
>>     > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create these resources at any given time.
>>
>> >... 
>>
>>     We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of
>>     other
>>     sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
>>     standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
>>     they don't know.
>>
>>
>> There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears
>> that our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(
>>
>> We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking
>> issue for it.
>
>
>
> We’ve implemented a workaround for the LDAP issue. Selfserve now allows
> Members as well as PMC chairs to create resources.

Very nice.

Thanks for the quick turn-around.

Mark

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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

John D. Ament-2
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:57 PM Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/03/18 18:36, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Greg Stein <[hidden email]
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
> >>     > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for
> any project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that
> specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create
> these resources at any given time.
> >>
> >> >...
> >>
> >>     We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of
> >>     other
> >>     sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the
> foundation
> >>     standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know
> when
> >>     they don't know.
> >>
> >>
> >> There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears
> >> that our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(
> >>
> >> We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking
> >> issue for it.
> >
> >
> >
> > We’ve implemented a workaround for the LDAP issue. Selfserve now allows
> > Members as well as PMC chairs to create resources.
>
> Very nice.
>
> Thanks for the quick turn-around.
>

Agreed, much appreciated.  Thanks for the responses all.


>
> Mark
>
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Re: Self Serve & IPMC Members

Willem Jiang
In reply to this post by Chris Lambertus
Yeah, it's really helpful that ASF member can create resources.


Willem Jiang

Blog: http://willemjiang.blogspot.com (English)
          http://jnn.iteye.com  (Chinese)
Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:36 AM, Chris Lambertus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Mar 12, 2018, at 6:23 AM, Greg Stein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/18 21:47, Chris Lambertus wrote:
>> > My understanding is that any pmc-chair can create resources for any
>> project via selfserve.a.o. It does not have to be the pmc chair of that
>> specific project, so there should be quite a few people who can create
>> these resources at any given time.
>>
> >...
>
>> We trust ASF members. They have access to security@ and a bunch of other
>> sensitive lists and they should be familiar enough with the foundation
>> standards and procedures - or at least self-aware enough to know when
>> they don't know.
>>
>
> There's general agreement on that, I believe. ... But, ugh, it appears
> that our LDAP schema doesn't easily support this right now :-(
>
> We'll look into how to make this happen. And open a Jira tracking issue
> for it.
>
>
>
>
> We’ve implemented a workaround for the LDAP issue. Selfserve now allows
> Members as well as PMC chairs to create resources.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> -g
>
>
>