Podling setup

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Podling setup

Julian Hyde-3
I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these, but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).

How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything? Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?

The red tape is getting me down.

Julian

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Re: Podling setup

Mark Thomas
On 07/03/18 23:24, Julian Hyde wrote:
> I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these, but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).
>
> How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything? Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?
>
> The red tape is getting me down.

Having to send one e-mail to ask for help is hardly red-tape.

If you provide a list of what is required - or a pointer to an existing
list - I'll put in the requests for you.

Mark

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Re: Podling setup

John D. Ament-2
I can help as well.  I'm without power presently :-( but feel free to ping
me like you did for mailing lists.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018, 7:51 AM Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 07/03/18 23:24, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set
> up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use
> https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these,
> but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).
> >
> > How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA
> tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything?
> Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?
> >
> > The red tape is getting me down.
>
> Having to send one e-mail to ask for help is hardly red-tape.
>
> If you provide a list of what is required - or a pointer to an existing
> list - I'll put in the requests for you.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: Podling setup

Julian Hyde-3
In reply to this post by Mark Thomas


> On Mar 8, 2018, at 4:51 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 07/03/18 23:24, Julian Hyde wrote:
>> I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these, but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).
>>
>> How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything? Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?
>>
>> The red tape is getting me down.
>
> Having to send one e-mail to ask for help is hardly red-tape.

Quite a few emails, actually. I’ve already been in conversation with John Ament to get the mailing lists, and Luciano Resende made a few suggestions, including using selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/>.

The advice to podlings is “ask your mentors” but this mentor is finding himself frustrated - no clear guidelines what to do, and when I discover options I don’t have enough karma.

selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/> makes sense for top-level projects - which, by definition, have at least one officer - but not for podlings. The advice for podlings should be to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> for all resources. Their mentors are in most cases as powerless as they are.

> If you provide a list of what is required - or a pointer to an existing
> list - I'll put in the requests for you.

Thanks for the offer to help. But acting as middle-man I’m just slowing things down - so I’m going to ask them to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> directly.

Julian

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Re: Podling setup

Mark Thomas
On 09/03/18 07:47, Julian Hyde wrote:

>
>
>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 4:51 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 07/03/18 23:24, Julian Hyde wrote:
>>> I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these, but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).
>>>
>>> How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything? Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?
>>>
>>> The red tape is getting me down.
>>
>> Having to send one e-mail to ask for help is hardly red-tape.
>
> Quite a few emails, actually. I’ve already been in conversation with John Ament to get the mailing lists, and Luciano Resende made a few suggestions, including using selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/>.
>
> The advice to podlings is “ask your mentors” but this mentor is finding himself frustrated - no clear guidelines what to do, and when I discover options I don’t have enough karma.

Have you seen the Mentor's guide? It covers most (all?) of the resource
set up stuff. According to the guide, mentors should be able to do this
sort of thing.

I took a look in Whimsy I found that the podling had not been created in
LDAP. As most of our tooling uses LDAP for authentication and
authorization I wonder if that was a factor in blocking you. I clicked
the button and created the podling in LDAP.

I noticed that the bootstrap INFRA ticket (16125) didn't mention LDAP. I
would have expected infra to have created the LDAP entry anyway but
maybe it got overlooked.

> selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/> makes sense for top-level projects - which, by definition, have at least one officer - but not for podlings. The advice for podlings should be to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> for all resources. Their mentors are in most cases as powerless as they are.

I think I have fixed this but even if I haven't, the other two mentors
are PMC chairs so once of them should have been able to take care of it.

>> If you provide a list of what is required - or a pointer to an existing
>> list - I'll put in the requests for you.
>
> Thanks for the offer to help. But acting as middle-man I’m just slowing things down - so I’m going to ask them to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> directly.

I'd ask that you try again to see if the LDAP tweak has fixed this. If
not, and the other mentors aren't around, then emailing general@ seems a
reasonable fallback to me. I'll keep my eyes open for any such emails
and try and process the requests for you if required.

Mark

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Re: Podling setup

Julian Hyde-3
I saw the mentor’s guide, went to selfserve as it suggested, and selfserve would not let me log in. (It still won’t.) So, the line "Most of the resources you will request can be done via Self Service.” is not true.

Thanks for fixing LDAP.

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:35 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 09/03/18 07:47, Julian Hyde wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 4:51 AM, Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07/03/18 23:24, Julian Hyde wrote:
>>>> I’m a mentor of a new podling, Druid. I would like to help them get set up, e.g. create mailing lists, create git repos. I tried to use https://selfserve.apache.org/ <https://selfserve.apache.org/> for these, but it only allows officers (i.e. PMC chairs).
>>>>
>>>> How is this supposed to work? Is the podling supposed to log INFRA tickets for everything? Am I supposed to nag the IPMC chair for everything? Or should I reach out to friends who happen to be PMC chairs?
>>>>
>>>> The red tape is getting me down.
>>>
>>> Having to send one e-mail to ask for help is hardly red-tape.
>>
>> Quite a few emails, actually. I’ve already been in conversation with John Ament to get the mailing lists, and Luciano Resende made a few suggestions, including using selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/>.
>>
>> The advice to podlings is “ask your mentors” but this mentor is finding himself frustrated - no clear guidelines what to do, and when I discover options I don’t have enough karma.
>
> Have you seen the Mentor's guide? It covers most (all?) of the resource
> set up stuff. According to the guide, mentors should be able to do this
> sort of thing.
>
> I took a look in Whimsy I found that the podling had not been created in
> LDAP. As most of our tooling uses LDAP for authentication and
> authorization I wonder if that was a factor in blocking you. I clicked
> the button and created the podling in LDAP.
>
> I noticed that the bootstrap INFRA ticket (16125) didn't mention LDAP. I
> would have expected infra to have created the LDAP entry anyway but
> maybe it got overlooked.
>
>> selfserve.apache.org <http://selfserve.apache.org/> makes sense for top-level projects - which, by definition, have at least one officer - but not for podlings. The advice for podlings should be to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> for all resources. Their mentors are in most cases as powerless as they are.
>
> I think I have fixed this but even if I haven't, the other two mentors
> are PMC chairs so once of them should have been able to take care of it.
>
>>> If you provide a list of what is required - or a pointer to an existing
>>> list - I'll put in the requests for you.
>>
>> Thanks for the offer to help. But acting as middle-man I’m just slowing things down - so I’m going to ask them to email [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> directly.
>
> I'd ask that you try again to see if the LDAP tweak has fixed this. If
> not, and the other mentors aren't around, then emailing general@ seems a
> reasonable fallback to me. I'll keep my eyes open for any such emails
> and try and process the requests for you if required.
>
> Mark


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Re: Podling setup

Mark Thomas
On 09/03/18 08:42, Julian Hyde wrote:
> I saw the mentor’s guide, went to selfserve as it suggested, and selfserve would not let me log in. (It still won’t.) So, the line "Most of the resources you will request can be done via Self Service.” is not true.
>
> Thanks for fixing LDAP.

No problem.

I've dug into the selfserve.a.o code and I can confirm that those pages
are restricted to root, secretary and PMC chairs. Mentors are not
included so the guide needs updating (or selfserve.a.o changing).

I haven't yet dug into how Whimsy identifies mentors. That is next on my
TODO list to see if there is an easy patch that could be proposed for
selfserve.a.o

Mark

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Re: Podling setup

John D. Ament-2
On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:02 AM Mark Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/03/18 08:42, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > I saw the mentor’s guide, went to selfserve as it suggested, and
> selfserve would not let me log in. (It still won’t.) So, the line "Most of
> the resources you will request can be done via Self Service.” is not true.
> >
> > Thanks for fixing LDAP.
>
> No problem.
>
> I've dug into the selfserve.a.o code and I can confirm that those pages
> are restricted to root, secretary and PMC chairs. Mentors are not
> included so the guide needs updating (or selfserve.a.o changing).
>
> I haven't yet dug into how Whimsy identifies mentors. That is next on my
> TODO list to see if there is an easy patch that could be proposed for
> selfserve.a.o
>
>
For some reason, I thought I already had a ticket in to fix selfserve to be
all IPMC members.  I can't find that request, so I'm assuming it doesn't
already exist.

I apologize for the pain that selfserve is creating.  I have updated the
mentor guide to clarify that if it's not working, you should go back to the
old method (in addition to cleaning up the bad links to servicedesk).

John


> Mark
>
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