[PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

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[PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Upayavira-2
The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
desire to incubate their project within the ASF.

I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.

The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)

Regards, Upayavira

= Wicket Proposal =

This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
within the Apache Software Foundation.

== Rationale ==

Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
Apache projects.

The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
Foundation for several reasons:

 * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
increased visibility and acceptance.

 * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
and legal protection.

 * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
togethers etc.

 * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
Felix or Jetspeed.

 * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.

 * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.

== Criteria ==

=== Community ===

Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
everyone. It is released
under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
maximum possible adoption by all
potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
suggestions and
contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
as contributors
since the project's inception in 2004.

=== Meritocracy ===

Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.

== Scope of Sub projects ==

Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
core project.

Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
knowledgeable enough to change.

== Features ==

Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
favorite technology.

== Initial Source ==

The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.

== Resources to be Created ==

 * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
 * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
 * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
 * Confluence Wiki.

== Potential Issues ==

These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
adopt an Apache approach for newer code.

=== Versions ===

Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).

We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.

This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
already using the product.

The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.

=== Package Naming ===

Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.

Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.

== Other Potential Concerns ==

=== Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===

Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
unlikely to fit into this category.

The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
others, who depend
on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
the commit statistic form a sub view:
http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.

=== Experience with Open Source ===

Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.

=== Heterogenous Developers ===

The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
employer.

 * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.

 * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
Inc. from October on as a software engineer.

 * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
software engineer

 * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.

 * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
Teachscape Inc.

 * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.

 * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
Consultant

 * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
wicket technology in its core) as a technical director

 * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
EEA as a software engineer

 * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer

 * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
engineer

 * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
He does not intend to move with us to Apache.

In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
countries.

All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
team has committed code, and may do so.

=== Reliance on Salaried Developers ===

None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
Wicket as their development framework of choice.

=== Ties to other Apache Products ===

Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
tries to stay as lean as possible though.

=== An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===

The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.

== Committers ==

 * Jonathan Locke
 * Eelco Hillenius
 * Johan Compagner
 * Martijn Dashorst
 * Juergen Donnerstag
 * Igor Vaynberg
 * Gwyn Evans
 * Matej Knopp
 * Janne Hietamäki
 * Ate Douma
 * Jan Blok

== Proposed Apache Sponsor ==

Incubator PMC

== Champions ==

 * Upayavira
 * Alex Karasulu
 * Sylvain Wallez

== Mentors ==

 * Upayavira
 * Alex Karasulu
 * Sylvain Wallez

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Don Brown-5
This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
framework and the community behind it, and this will further
facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
periodically having with Wicket.

Let me know of any way I can help,

Don

On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
>
> I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
> flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
>
> The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
>
> Regards, Upayavira
>
> = Wicket Proposal =
>
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
>
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
>
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
>
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> and legal protection.
>
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
>
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
>
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
>
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
>
> == Criteria ==
>
> === Community ===
>
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
>
> === Meritocracy ===
>
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
>
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
>
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
>
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
>
> == Features ==
>
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
>
> == Initial Source ==
>
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
>
> == Resources to be Created ==
>
>  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
>
> == Potential Issues ==
>
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
>
> === Versions ===
>
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
>
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
>
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
>
> The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
>
> === Package Naming ===
>
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
>
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
>
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
>
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
>
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
>
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
>
> === Experience with Open Source ===
>
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
>
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
>
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
>
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
>
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
>
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
>
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
>
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
>
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
>
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
>
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
>
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
> EEA as a software engineer
>
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
>
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
>
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> countries.
>
> All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
>
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
>
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
> Wicket as their development framework of choice.
>
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
>
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
>
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
>
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
>
> == Committers ==
>
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
>
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
>
> Incubator PMC
>
> == Champions ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>
> == Mentors ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Martin Marinschek
Hi,

I appreciate this addition to the web-framework competition at the
ASF. If you have any interest in interfacing to JSF and Apache
MyFaces, I'd be happy to help out.

regards,

Martin

On 7/26/06, Don Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
> framework and the community behind it, and this will further
> facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
> periodically having with Wicket.
>
> Let me know of any way I can help,
>
> Don
>
> On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> > desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
> >
> > I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
> > flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
> >
> > The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
> >
> > Regards, Upayavira
> >
> > = Wicket Proposal =
> >
> > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> >
> > == Rationale ==
> >
> > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> > Apache projects.
> >
> > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> > Foundation for several reasons:
> >
> >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> > increased visibility and acceptance.
> >
> >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> > and legal protection.
> >
> >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > togethers etc.
> >
> >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> > Felix or Jetspeed.
> >
> >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> >
> >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> >
> > == Criteria ==
> >
> > === Community ===
> >
> > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > everyone. It is released
> > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> > maximum possible adoption by all
> > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > suggestions and
> > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> > as contributors
> > since the project's inception in 2004.
> >
> > === Meritocracy ===
> >
> > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
> > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> >
> > == Scope of Sub projects ==
> >
> > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> > while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> > core project.
> >
> > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > knowledgeable enough to change.
> >
> > == Features ==
> >
> > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > favorite technology.
> >
> > == Initial Source ==
> >
> > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> >
> > == Resources to be Created ==
> >
> >  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> >  * Confluence Wiki.
> >
> > == Potential Issues ==
> >
> > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> >
> > === Versions ===
> >
> > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> >
> > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> >
> > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > already using the product.
> >
> > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> >
> > === Package Naming ===
> >
> > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> >
> > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> >
> > == Other Potential Concerns ==
> >
> > === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> >
> > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> > unlikely to fit into this category.
> >
> > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > others, who depend
> > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> >
> > === Experience with Open Source ===
> >
> > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> >
> > === Heterogenous Developers ===
> >
> > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> > employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > employer.
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> >
> >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> >
> >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> > software engineer
> >
> >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> >
> >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > Teachscape Inc.
> >
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> >
> >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > Consultant
> >
> >  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> >
> >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
> > EEA as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> > engineer
> >
> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> >
> > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> > countries.
> >
> > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> > team has committed code, and may do so.
> >
> > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> >
> > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
> > Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> >
> > === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> >
> > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> >
> > === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> >
> > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> >
> > == Committers ==
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke
> >  * Eelco Hillenius
> >  * Johan Compagner
> >  * Martijn Dashorst
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> >  * Igor Vaynberg
> >  * Gwyn Evans
> >  * Matej Knopp
> >  * Janne Hietamäki
> >  * Ate Douma
> >  * Jan Blok
> >
> > == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> >
> > Incubator PMC
> >
> > == Champions ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >
> > == Mentors ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Eelco Hillenius
Thanks Martin. If there would be a way to find ways to interoperate
without loosing both our strong points, that would be great. We've
looked into it last year, and concluded it can't really be done based
on the current JSF specs, largely because Wicket is a non-declarative
framework. But otoh, we're obviously not the greatest JSF experts, so
we could always see if it is possible to talk things over while
enjoying a beer at ApacheCon :) Anything that empowers fellow coders
must be good.

Eelco


On 7/26/06, Martin Marinschek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I appreciate this addition to the web-framework competition at the
> ASF. If you have any interest in interfacing to JSF and Apache
> MyFaces, I'd be happy to help out.
>
> regards,
>
> Martin
>
> On 7/26/06, Don Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
> > framework and the community behind it, and this will further
> > facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
> > periodically having with Wicket.
> >
> > Let me know of any way I can help,
> >
> > Don
> >
> > On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> > > desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
> > >
> > > I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
> > > flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
> > >
> > > The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
> > >
> > > Regards, Upayavira
> > >
> > > = Wicket Proposal =
> > >
> > > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> > > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> > >
> > > == Rationale ==
> > >
> > > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> > > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> > > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> > > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> > > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> > > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> > > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> > > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> > > Apache projects.
> > >
> > > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> > > Foundation for several reasons:
> > >
> > >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> > > increased visibility and acceptance.
> > >
> > >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> > > and legal protection.
> > >
> > >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> > > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > > togethers etc.
> > >
> > >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> > > Felix or Jetspeed.
> > >
> > >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> > > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> > >
> > >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> > > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> > >
> > > == Criteria ==
> > >
> > > === Community ===
> > >
> > > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > > everyone. It is released
> > > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> > > maximum possible adoption by all
> > > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > > suggestions and
> > > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> > > as contributors
> > > since the project's inception in 2004.
> > >
> > > === Meritocracy ===
> > >
> > > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> > > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
> > > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> > > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> > > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> > > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> > > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> > > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> > > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> > >
> > > == Scope of Sub projects ==
> > >
> > > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> > > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> > > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> > > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> > > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> > > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> > > while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> > > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> > > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> > > core project.
> > >
> > > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> > > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> > > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> > > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > > knowledgeable enough to change.
> > >
> > > == Features ==
> > >
> > > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> > > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> > > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> > > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > > favorite technology.
> > >
> > > == Initial Source ==
> > >
> > > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> > > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> > >
> > > == Resources to be Created ==
> > >
> > >  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> > >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> > >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> > >  * Confluence Wiki.
> > >
> > > == Potential Issues ==
> > >
> > > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> > > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> > >
> > > === Versions ===
> > >
> > > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> > >
> > > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> > >
> > > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > > already using the product.
> > >
> > > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> > > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> > >
> > > === Package Naming ===
> > >
> > > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> > >
> > > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> > >
> > > == Other Potential Concerns ==
> > >
> > > === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> > >
> > > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> > > unlikely to fit into this category.
> > >
> > > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > > others, who depend
> > > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> > > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> > > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> > >
> > > === Experience with Open Source ===
> > >
> > > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> > > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> > > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> > >
> > > === Heterogenous Developers ===
> > >
> > > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> > > employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > > employer.
> > >
> > >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> > > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> > >
> > >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> > > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> > >
> > >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> > > software engineer
> > >
> > >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> > > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> > >
> > >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > > Teachscape Inc.
> > >
> > >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> > >
> > >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > > Consultant
> > >
> > >  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> > > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> > >
> > >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
> > > EEA as a software engineer
> > >
> > >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> > >
> > >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> > > engineer
> > >
> > >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> > >
> > > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> > > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> > > countries.
> > >
> > > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> > > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> > > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> > > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> > > team has committed code, and may do so.
> > >
> > > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> > >
> > > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> > > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> > > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> > > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> > > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
> > > Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> > >
> > > === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> > >
> > > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> > > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> > > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> > >
> > > === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> > >
> > > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> > > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> > >
> > > == Committers ==
> > >
> > >  * Jonathan Locke
> > >  * Eelco Hillenius
> > >  * Johan Compagner
> > >  * Martijn Dashorst
> > >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> > >  * Igor Vaynberg
> > >  * Gwyn Evans
> > >  * Matej Knopp
> > >  * Janne Hietamäki
> > >  * Ate Douma
> > >  * Jan Blok
> > >
> > > == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> > >
> > > Incubator PMC
> > >
> > > == Champions ==
> > >
> > >  * Upayavira
> > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > >
> > > == Mentors ==
> > >
> > >  * Upayavira
> > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Eelco Hillenius
In reply to this post by Don Brown-5
Thanks Don! Thanks Upayavira, Alexa, Sylvain, Timothy and the others
that have officially or unofficially championed Wicket. We hope that
Wicket will make a valuable addition to Apache, and we are looking
forward to get to know you guys better when we would be part of the
Apache family.

Cheers,

Eelco


On 7/26/06, Don Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
> framework and the community behind it, and this will further
> facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
> periodically having with Wicket.
>
> Let me know of any way I can help,
>
> Don
>
> On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> > desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
> >
> > I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
> > flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
> >
> > The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
> >
> > Regards, Upayavira
> >
> > = Wicket Proposal =
> >
> > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> >
> > == Rationale ==
> >
> > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> > Apache projects.
> >
> > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> > Foundation for several reasons:
> >
> >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> > increased visibility and acceptance.
> >
> >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> > and legal protection.
> >
> >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > togethers etc.
> >
> >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> > Felix or Jetspeed.
> >
> >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> >
> >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> >
> > == Criteria ==
> >
> > === Community ===
> >
> > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > everyone. It is released
> > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> > maximum possible adoption by all
> > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > suggestions and
> > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> > as contributors
> > since the project's inception in 2004.
> >
> > === Meritocracy ===
> >
> > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
> > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> >
> > == Scope of Sub projects ==
> >
> > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> > while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> > core project.
> >
> > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > knowledgeable enough to change.
> >
> > == Features ==
> >
> > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > favorite technology.
> >
> > == Initial Source ==
> >
> > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> >
> > == Resources to be Created ==
> >
> >  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> >  * Confluence Wiki.
> >
> > == Potential Issues ==
> >
> > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> >
> > === Versions ===
> >
> > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> >
> > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> >
> > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > already using the product.
> >
> > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> >
> > === Package Naming ===
> >
> > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> >
> > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> >
> > == Other Potential Concerns ==
> >
> > === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> >
> > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> > unlikely to fit into this category.
> >
> > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > others, who depend
> > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> >
> > === Experience with Open Source ===
> >
> > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> >
> > === Heterogenous Developers ===
> >
> > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> > employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > employer.
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> >
> >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> >
> >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> > software engineer
> >
> >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> >
> >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > Teachscape Inc.
> >
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> >
> >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > Consultant
> >
> >  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> >
> >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
> > EEA as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> > engineer
> >
> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> >
> > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> > countries.
> >
> > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> > team has committed code, and may do so.
> >
> > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> >
> > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
> > Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> >
> > === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> >
> > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> >
> > === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> >
> > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> >
> > == Committers ==
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke
> >  * Eelco Hillenius
> >  * Johan Compagner
> >  * Martijn Dashorst
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> >  * Igor Vaynberg
> >  * Gwyn Evans
> >  * Matej Knopp
> >  * Janne Hietamäki
> >  * Ate Douma
> >  * Jan Blok
> >
> > == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> >
> > Incubator PMC
> >
> > == Champions ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >
> > == Mentors ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Matthias Wessendorf-4
In reply to this post by Eelco Hillenius
Eelco,

that would be great; see you there.

Independent from the JSF standpoint, I'd like to give you guys a +1
But, that said, is non-binding.

-Matthias

On 7/26/06, Eelco Hillenius <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Martin. If there would be a way to find ways to interoperate
> without loosing both our strong points, that would be great. We've
> looked into it last year, and concluded it can't really be done based
> on the current JSF specs, largely because Wicket is a non-declarative
> framework. But otoh, we're obviously not the greatest JSF experts, so
> we could always see if it is possible to talk things over while
> enjoying a beer at ApacheCon :) Anything that empowers fellow coders
> must be good.
>
> Eelco
>
>
> On 7/26/06, Martin Marinschek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I appreciate this addition to the web-framework competition at the
> > ASF. If you have any interest in interfacing to JSF and Apache
> > MyFaces, I'd be happy to help out.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 7/26/06, Don Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > This has my hearty +1!  This is great news as I've always admired the
> > > framework and the community behind it, and this will further
> > > facilitate the inter-framework discussions we (Struts) has been
> > > periodically having with Wicket.
> > >
> > > Let me know of any way I can help,
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> > > > desire to incubate their project within the ASF.
> > > >
> > > > I personally think that Wicket would fit very well at Apache with its
> > > > flavour of innovation and its strong, meritocracy based community.
> > > >
> > > > The proposal follows (which can also be found at:
> > > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WicketProposal)
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Upayavira
> > > >
> > > > = Wicket Proposal =
> > > >
> > > > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> > > > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> > > >
> > > > == Rationale ==
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> > > > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> > > > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> > > > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > > > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> > > > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> > > > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> > > > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> > > > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> > > > Apache projects.
> > > >
> > > > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> > > > Foundation for several reasons:
> > > >
> > > >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> > > > increased visibility and acceptance.
> > > >
> > > >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> > > > and legal protection.
> > > >
> > > >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> > > > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > > > togethers etc.
> > > >
> > > >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> > > > Felix or Jetspeed.
> > > >
> > > >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> > > > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> > > >
> > > >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> > > > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> > > >
> > > > == Criteria ==
> > > >
> > > > === Community ===
> > > >
> > > > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > > > everyone. It is released
> > > > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> > > > maximum possible adoption by all
> > > > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > > > suggestions and
> > > > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> > > > as contributors
> > > > since the project's inception in 2004.
> > > >
> > > > === Meritocracy ===
> > > >
> > > > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> > > > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hilenius, Johan Compagner and
> > > > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> > > > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> > > > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> > > > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > > > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> > > > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> > > > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> > > > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > > > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> > > >
> > > > == Scope of Sub projects ==
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> > > > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> > > > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> > > > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> > > > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> > > > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> > > > while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> > > > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> > > > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> > > > core project.
> > > >
> > > > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> > > > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> > > > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> > > > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > > > knowledgeable enough to change.
> > > >
> > > > == Features ==
> > > >
> > > > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > > > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> > > > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > > > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> > > > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> > > > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > > > favorite technology.
> > > >
> > > > == Initial Source ==
> > > >
> > > > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> > > > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> > > >
> > > > == Resources to be Created ==
> > > >
> > > >  * user, dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> > > >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> > > >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> > > >  * Confluence Wiki.
> > > >
> > > > == Potential Issues ==
> > > >
> > > > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> > > > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > > > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> > > >
> > > > === Versions ===
> > > >
> > > > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > > > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> > > >
> > > > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > > > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> > > >
> > > > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > > > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > > > already using the product.
> > > >
> > > > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> > > > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> > > >
> > > > === Package Naming ===
> > > >
> > > > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > > > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > > > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > > > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> > > >
> > > > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> > > >
> > > > == Other Potential Concerns ==
> > > >
> > > > === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> > > >
> > > > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > > > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> > > > unlikely to fit into this category.
> > > >
> > > > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > > > others, who depend
> > > > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> > > > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> > > > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > > > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> > > >
> > > > === Experience with Open Source ===
> > > >
> > > > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> > > > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > > > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> > > > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> > > >
> > > > === Heterogenous Developers ===
> > > >
> > > > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> > > > employers. Of our 12 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > > > employer.
> > > >
> > > >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> > > > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> > > >
> > > >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > > > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > > > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> > > > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> > > >
> > > >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> > > > software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > > > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> > > > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> > > >
> > > >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > > > Teachscape Inc.
> > > >
> > > >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> > > >
> > > >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > > > Consultant
> > > >
> > > >  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> > > > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> > > >
> > > >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic is a CS student and works for
> > > > EEA as a software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> > > > engineer
> > > >
> > > >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > > > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> > > > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> > > > countries.
> > > >
> > > > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> > > > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> > > > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> > > > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> > > > team has committed code, and may do so.
> > > >
> > > > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> > > >
> > > > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> > > > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> > > > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> > > > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> > > > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron and Teachscape) choose
> > > > Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> > > >
> > > > === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> > > >
> > > > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> > > > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> > > > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> > > >
> > > > === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> > > >
> > > > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > > > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> > > > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > > > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > > > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > > > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > > > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> > > >
> > > > == Committers ==
> > > >
> > > >  * Jonathan Locke
> > > >  * Eelco Hillenius
> > > >  * Johan Compagner
> > > >  * Martijn Dashorst
> > > >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> > > >  * Igor Vaynberg
> > > >  * Gwyn Evans
> > > >  * Matej Knopp
> > > >  * Janne Hietamäki
> > > >  * Ate Douma
> > > >  * Jan Blok
> > > >
> > > > == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> > > >
> > > > Incubator PMC
> > > >
> > > > == Champions ==
> > > >
> > > >  * Upayavira
> > > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > > >
> > > > == Mentors ==
> > > >
> > > >  * Upayavira
> > > >  * Alex Karasulu
> > > >  * Sylvain Wallez
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>


--
Matthias Wessendorf

further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Bertrand Delacretaz-3
In reply to this post by Upayavira-2
On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> desire to incubate their project within the ASF....

Big +1 here. I've been looking at Wicket recently, and from a
technical point of view I like what I see *a lot*.

Your description of the Wicket community shows that it fits the ASF's
way of working as well, so it looks like a very good candidate for
incubation, IMHO.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Bertrand Delacretaz-3
In reply to this post by Upayavira-2
On 7/26/06, Upayavira <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> desire to incubate their project within the ASF....

BTW, if it's useful I'd be happy to help as an additional mentor.

I'm not (yet) using Wicket though, so others might be better qualified
than me for this task, if they are closer to the project.

-Bertrand

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Leo Simons
In reply to this post by Upayavira-2
Nice proposal. Seems like a no-brainer. More Dutchies at apache is
always a good thing ;)

On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:54:15PM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
> === Versions ===
>
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
>
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.

Doesn't sound like a problem.

> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
>
> The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.

I'd suggest they read the documentation then :)

   http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases

As far as the incubator is concerned, the neccessity to understand and
follow rules & policies for releases is when a release is made, not
before incubation starts...

--

> === Package Naming ===
>
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.

No issue there.

--

>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.

What does that mean? Does he not think wicket should move to apache? Does
he not want to sign a CLA? Is there consensus within wicket on this move
or isn't there?

LSD

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

jcompagner-2
>
> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> What does that mean? Does he not think wicket should move to apache? Does
> he not want to sign a CLA? Is there consensus within wicket on this move
> or isn't there?



Chris isn't an active committer anymore for wicket for a long time.
And wants to "resign" completely when we move.

johan
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Eelco Hillenius
In reply to this post by Leo Simons
On 7/27/06, Leo Simons <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Nice proposal. Seems like a no-brainer. More Dutchies at apache is
> always a good thing ;)

These Dutchies should get a life ;)

> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> What does that mean? Does he not think wicket should move to apache? Does
> he not want to sign a CLA? Is there consensus within wicket on this move
> or isn't there?


He is +1 for the move, but he hasn't been active for the project for
over a year, and he doesn't expect to be active anytime soon. So he
suggested he wouldn't move with us.

The whole team agrees on the proposal.

Eelco

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Upayavira-2
In reply to this post by Leo Simons
Leo Simons wrote:

> Nice proposal. Seems like a no-brainer. More Dutchies at apache is
> always a good thing ;)
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:54:15PM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
>> === Versions ===
>>
>> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
>> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
>>
>> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
>> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
>
> Doesn't sound like a problem.

Good.

>> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
>> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
>> already using the product.
>>
>> The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
>> understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
>
> I'd suggest they read the documentation then :)

>    http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
> As far as the incubator is concerned, the neccessity to understand and
> follow rules & policies for releases is when a release is made, not
> before incubation starts...

Those were my words. What I was meaning was that the Wicket team need to
be sure that they can do releases before they're likely to be prepared
to join the incubator. Releases must be possible under acceptable terms.
Thanks for the pointer - I'll give that a read now.

>> === Package Naming ===
>>
>> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
>> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
>> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
>> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
>
> No issue there.
>
> --
>
>>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
>> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> What does that mean? Does he not think wicket should move to apache? Does
> he not want to sign a CLA? Is there consensus within wicket on this move
> or isn't there?

A previous committer, not involved now, but would be prepared to sign a
CLA if it helped Wicket.


Regards, Upayavira

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Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Martijn Dashorst
In reply to this post by Leo Simons
BTW Thanks everyone for the support!

On the release note:

We are very committed to support our community even when we're
undergoing incubation. This would typically mean that we might need to
release Wicket versions. As releases marked as incubated will probably
raise an eyebrow or two, what are our options?

Can we take the code in the Apache incubator svn, build a release, and
release it on sf.net (our previous host) without branding it as
apache? Does this need to go through the PMC as well?

Especially our 1.2/1.3 product versions will probably need some form
of support, and I think that during our incubation, we will need to
make a Wicket 1.2.3 release available. Depending on the speed of our
incubation, Wicket 1.3 will see the light as well before graduation.
Mainly our concerns are how to proceed with those releases: bug fix
releases and new minor releases.

For those without intimate WIcket knowledge, Wicket 2.0 will be our
next major release, and will break backwards compatiblity on a massive
scale. A rename of the packages to the org.apache.wicket will be part
of that release. To save our current users that have systems in
production based on our 1.2 version, we would like to keep the current
API (which starts with package wicket). 1.3 will be a support release
for those users, with backports from some functionality taken from the
2.0 branch. Basically we have forked the project.

Martijn

On 7/27/06, Leo Simons <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nice proposal. Seems like a no-brainer. More Dutchies at apache is
> always a good thing ;)
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:54:15PM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
> > === Versions ===
> >
> > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> >
> > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
>
> Doesn't sound like a problem.
>
> > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > already using the product.
> >
> > The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> > understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
>
> I'd suggest they read the documentation then :)
>
>    http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
> As far as the incubator is concerned, the neccessity to understand and
> follow rules & policies for releases is when a release is made, not
> before incubation starts...
>
> --
>
> > === Package Naming ===
> >
> > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
>
> No issue there.
>
> --
>
> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> What does that mean? Does he not think wicket should move to apache? Does
> he not want to sign a CLA? Is there consensus within wicket on this move
> or isn't there?
>
> LSD
>
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>


--
Download Wicket 1.2.1 now! Embed Wicket components in your portals!
-- http://wicketframework.org

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Re: Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Bertrand Delacretaz-3
On 7/27/06, Martijn Dashorst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ....As releases marked as incubated will probably
> raise an eyebrow or two, what are our options?...

Seen from another angle, releases marked "incubating" are a great way
to help make your community aware of what's happening. Along with a
good explanation on the project's homepage, of course.

-Bertrand

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Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Leo Simons
In reply to this post by Martijn Dashorst
Hey Martijn, guys,

I'd really like to encourage you to take a look at how different
established projects that joined apache through the incubator have
handled this (spamassassin, stdcxx. roller, ofbiz, ...), as well as
some of the discussion about this "releases from incubating projects"
policy and its application that we've had through the years (see the
archives for this mailing list on http://mail-archives.apache.org).

On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 04:04:39PM +0200, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> We are very committed to support our community even when we're
> undergoing incubation. This would typically mean that we might need to
> release Wicket versions. As releases marked as incubated will probably
> raise an eyebrow or two, what are our options?

 * just release marked as incubating, making sure users understand what it
   means or does not mean

 * release elsewhere, making sure to give things an appropriately different
   name and making sure both users and the incubator PMC understand what it
   all means and what is going on

 * don't release a "stable" build during incubation

 * discuss and propose some other alternative that is OK-ed by the
   incubator PMC

 * something I didn't think of

I personally think the first option in the end is the best one. A project moving
to apache and undergoing incubation *should* raise a few eyebrows, and users
*should* wonder what that "incubating" label means and investigate. Chances are,
once they find out, they won't worry all that much.

What it comes down to is that apache, the incubator PMC, our public relations
committee (PRC), and the wicket community in the end probably want roughly
the same thing...namely, what is best for our community(ies). Of course,
apache is a bit of a different beast from an average sourceforge project, with
a few more different communities, with a non-profit foundation, lots of different
and diverse interests to protect, a big and established brand, a trademark or two
to protect, etc etc, so a bunch of differences flow from that.

> On 7/27/06, Leo Simons <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:54:15PM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
> >> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> >> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> >> already using the product.
> >>
> >> The exact manner of producing these releases would need to be clearly
> >> understood by the Wicket team before incubation can start.
> >
> >I'd suggest they read the documentation then :)
> >
> >   http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
> >
> >As far as the incubator is concerned, the neccessity to understand and
> >follow rules & policies for releases is when a release is made, not
> >before incubation starts...

--

cheers,

Leo

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Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

igor.vaynberg
>
> * release elsewhere, making sure to give things an appropriately different
>    name and making sure both users and the incubator PMC understand what
> it
>    all means and what is going on
>

imho, i would much rather see wicket-1.2.2 rather then
wicket-incubating-1.2.2 as a release. to me incubating says "not ready for
production use". it might mean something different in the apache context but
we cant expect all our existing users or those who stumble upon wicket for
the first time to enlighten themselves.

so i would rather release on our existing home at sf.net

Leo, could you elaborate a bit more on "give things an appropriately
different name"? we just call those releases wicket (like what weve been
doing) as opposed to apache-wicket?

thanks,
-Igor
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Timothy Bennett-3
In reply to this post by Eelco Hillenius
On 7/26/06, Eelco Hillenius <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Don! Thanks Upayavira, Alexa, Sylvain, Timothy and the others
> that have officially or unofficially championed Wicket. We hope that
> Wicket will make a valuable addition to Apache, and we are looking
> forward to get to know you guys better when we would be part of the
> Apache family.


At great big +1 from me with respect to Wicket coming to the ASF.  A dream
of mine for about a year now.  Proposal looks good.  As a user of Wicket in
my own productions systems, I understand the team's concern with continued
maintenance support of the 1.2 and 1.3 codebases while incubating.  I'm sure
an appropriate strategy that is in the best interest of Wicket's
user/customer base and in the best interest of ASF practices and policies
can be discerned.

Welcome Eelco, Martijn, Igor, and the rest of the Wicket crew!

--
timothy bennett
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Re: Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

jcompagner-2
In reply to this post by igor.vaynberg
> imho, i would much rather see wicket-1.2.2 rather then
> wicket-incubating-1.2.2 as a release. to me incubating says "not ready for
> production use". it might mean something different in the apache context
> but
> we cant expect all our existing users or those who stumble upon wicket for
> the first time to enlighten themselves.
>
> so i would rather release on our existing home at sf.net


Yes i would also rather see a normal wicket-1.2.2.jar  when we release an
update
to 1.2.x then a incubator name in it.  1.2.2 is a finished release and
incubator
doesn't say finished to me and that i guess goes for a lot of people.

So i am +1 for option 2.

And for 2.0 we should then really wait for getting out of incubator. Because
the same rules apply to me. I am not pro for a final release with incubator
in the name.

johan
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Leo Simons
In reply to this post by igor.vaynberg
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:37:04AM -0700, Igor Vaynberg wrote:
> >* release elsewhere, making sure to give things an appropriately different
> >   name and making sure both users and the incubator PMC understand what
> >   it all means and what is going on
>
> imho, i would much rather see wicket-1.2.2 rather then
> wicket-incubating-1.2.2 as a release.

and apache-wicket-2.0.5 looks even better, doesn't it? Incubation is not really
about "looking good". The key point is that it is clear to everyone what-is-what
and what is going on. And when a project enters incubation at apache, we (well,
the project's committers. PMCs don't really "do" much) all strive to make very
clear that this incubation thing is happening and what it means.

Hence, I would much rather see a group of developers who would be happy to see a
wicket-incubating-1.2.2 release since it shows they want to try just as hard
as me to explain to their users what is being provided.

> to me incubating says "not ready for
> production use". it might mean something different in the apache context but
> we cant expect all our existing users or those who stumble upon wicket for
> the first time to enlighten themselves.

^^ difference of opinion there. I fully expect users to read and understand
relevant licenses, disclaimers, notices, etc. Those that don't are doing
themselves a disservice and I'm not all that inclined to cater for them; rather,
I'm inclined to try and change their behaviour.

If "user" equated to "my granny" I might think differently (probably not, and
hence the world is full with big "I have read the above terms and agree to them"
buttons), but AIUI users of wicket are software developers (and probably pretty
good ones) themselves.

> so i would rather release on our existing home at sf.net
>
> Leo, could you elaborate a bit more on "give things an appropriately
> different name"? we just call those releases wicket (like what weve been
> doing) as opposed to apache-wicket?

I could but I'm not gonna. I don't speak for the incubator PMC and I'm not
one of your mentors either. The best you'll get out of me is behaving like a
broken record -- what needs to happen needs to be in the best interest of
everyone for a broad definition of "everyone", and the incubator PMC needs to
agree on that best interest judgement when it comes to projects incubating @
apache. We have a policy, there might be wiggle room, there might be a small
or big change of policy, etc. This is apache after all, very little things are
set in stone, and the way things change is well-documented.

We've had this very discussion quite a few times over the last few years and
the current policy pretty much reflects what the incubator community currently
considers best practice, and for the exact details, the whys and the hows, I'll
refer once again to our mailing list archives, since its not easily summarised,
and I'd most likely do a bad job trying to.

cheers!

LSD

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Incubate Wicket

Niclas Hedhman
In reply to this post by Upayavira-2
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 23:54, Upayavira wrote:
> The Wicket developers (http://wicket.sourceforge.net) have expressed a
> desire to incubate their project within the ASF.

+1, non-binding.

The Wicket community is vibrant, diverse and already operating closely to
the "Apache Way", and (if I may say so) outstanding support for us with
special needs ;o)
I am looking forward to see Wicket at ASF.


Cheers
Niclas

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