[DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

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[DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Luciano Resende
Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so far
the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community also
continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts, public
webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.

It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML

The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@.../msg01457.html

If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
discussed/drafted at:
https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@.../msg01728.html

The optional maturity model is available at:
http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>


Any thoughts, comments, questions?

Thanks !

Regards


--
Luciano Resende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

John D. Ament-2
Luciano,

I suspect from a community standpoint SystemML is ready to go.

I'm concerned about their ability to create ASF compliant releases.  Their
current release under vote is problematic, specifically the contents of the
LICENSE file.  I would like to see the podling leave the incubator with a
perfect release.

John

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM Luciano Resende <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so far
> the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
> committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community also
> continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts, public
> webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.
>
> It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML
>
> The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@.../msg01457.html
>
> If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
> discussed/drafted at:
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@.../msg01728.html
>
> The optional maturity model is available at:
> http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>
>
>
> Any thoughts, comments, questions?
>
> Thanks !
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Luciano Resende
John,

Although the latest release had one small license issue due to recent
changes, I don't consider that a blocking for graduation, particularly when
we look at the past couple releases that passed without any issues trough
IPMC.

SystemML 0.12 release candidate vote at General
https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58449.html

SystemML 0.13 release candidate vote at General
https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58803.html

Also, we have been doing some rotation on the RM for SystemML to make sure
others on the PPMC are comfortable building releases.


On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Luciano,
>
> I suspect from a community standpoint SystemML is ready to go.
>
> I'm concerned about their ability to create ASF compliant releases.  Their
> current release under vote is problematic, specifically the contents of the
> LICENSE file.  I would like to see the podling leave the incubator with a
> perfect release.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so far
> > the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
> > committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community also
> > continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts, public
> > webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.
> >
> > It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML
> >
> > The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
> >
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> org/msg01457.html
> >
> > If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
> > discussed/drafted at:
> >
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> org/msg01728.html
> >
> > The optional maturity model is available at:
> > http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts, comments, questions?
> >
> > Thanks !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luciano Resende
> > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >
>



--
Luciano Resende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Henri Yandell-4
+1. Sounds like it's passed time to discuss graduation.

There's no such thing as a perfect release, and the measure of a community
is not its ability to make a perfect release, but its ability to deal with,
and learn from, a release issue.

Hen

On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:04 Luciano Resende <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John,
>
> Although the latest release had one small license issue due to recent
> changes, I don't consider that a blocking for graduation, particularly when
> we look at the past couple releases that passed without any issues trough
> IPMC.
>
> SystemML 0.12 release candidate vote at General
> https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58449.html
>
> SystemML 0.13 release candidate vote at General
> https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58803.html
>
> Also, we have been doing some rotation on the RM for SystemML to make sure
> others on the PPMC are comfortable building releases.
>
>
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Luciano,
> >
> > I suspect from a community standpoint SystemML is ready to go.
> >
> > I'm concerned about their ability to create ASF compliant releases.
> Their
> > current release under vote is problematic, specifically the contents of
> the
> > LICENSE file.  I would like to see the podling leave the incubator with a
> > perfect release.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so
> far
> > > the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
> > > committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community
> also
> > > continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts, public
> > > webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.
> > >
> > > It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML
> > >
> > > The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
> > >
> > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > org/msg01457.html
> > >
> > > If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
> > > discussed/drafted at:
> > >
> > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > org/msg01728.html
> > >
> > > The optional maturity model is available at:
> > > http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <
> http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>
> > >
> > >
> > > Any thoughts, comments, questions?
> > >
> > > Thanks !
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Luciano Resende
> > > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Henry Saputra
+1 to that

The community has proven the ability to run the project in the Apache way
and has been very open and responsive to resolve issues raised from IPMC.

- Henry
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 3:26 PM Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1. Sounds like it's passed time to discuss graduation.
>
> There's no such thing as a perfect release, and the measure of a community
> is not its ability to make a perfect release, but its ability to deal with,
> and learn from, a release issue.
>
> Hen
>
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:04 Luciano Resende <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > Although the latest release had one small license issue due to recent
> > changes, I don't consider that a blocking for graduation, particularly
> when
> > we look at the past couple releases that passed without any issues trough
> > IPMC.
> >
> > SystemML 0.12 release candidate vote at General
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58449.html
> >
> > SystemML 0.13 release candidate vote at General
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58803.html
> >
> > Also, we have been doing some rotation on the RM for SystemML to make
> sure
> > others on the PPMC are comfortable building releases.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Luciano,
> > >
> > > I suspect from a community standpoint SystemML is ready to go.
> > >
> > > I'm concerned about their ability to create ASF compliant releases.
> > Their
> > > current release under vote is problematic, specifically the contents of
> > the
> > > LICENSE file.  I would like to see the podling leave the incubator
> with a
> > > perfect release.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so
> > far
> > > > the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
> > > > committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community
> > also
> > > > continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts,
> public
> > > > webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.
> > > >
> > > > It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML
> > > >
> > > > The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > > org/msg01457.html
> > > >
> > > > If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
> > > > discussed/drafted at:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > > org/msg01728.html
> > > >
> > > > The optional maturity model is available at:
> > > > http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <
> > http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts, comments, questions?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks !
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Luciano Resende
> > > > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > > > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luciano Resende
> > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

John D. Ament-2
In reply to this post by Henri Yandell-4
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 6:26 PM Henri Yandell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1. Sounds like it's passed time to discuss graduation.
>
> There's no such thing as a perfect release, and the measure of a community
> is not its ability to make a perfect release, but its ability to deal with,
> and learn from, a release issue.
>

Measuring a community isn't the only part of graduation.  Verifying that
they know how to create a release is part of that process.  While there is
no perfect release, we do expect all licensing issues to be cleared up by
the time they graduate, and the current release indicates they are not.
The fact that they want to have a follow up release to fix them indicates
that they think they're still incubating.


>
> Hen
>
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:04 Luciano Resende <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > Although the latest release had one small license issue due to recent
> > changes, I don't consider that a blocking for graduation, particularly
> when
> > we look at the past couple releases that passed without any issues trough
> > IPMC.
> >
> > SystemML 0.12 release candidate vote at General
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58449.html
> >
> > SystemML 0.13 release candidate vote at General
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/general@.../msg58803.html
> >
> > Also, we have been doing some rotation on the RM for SystemML to make
> sure
> > others on the PPMC are comfortable building releases.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Luciano,
> > >
> > > I suspect from a community standpoint SystemML is ready to go.
> > >
> > > I'm concerned about their ability to create ASF compliant releases.
> > Their
> > > current release under vote is problematic, specifically the contents of
> > the
> > > LICENSE file.  I would like to see the podling leave the incubator
> with a
> > > perfect release.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:48 PM Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Apache SystemML has been under incubation since November 2015 and so
> > far
> > > > the project has accomplished 5 official Apache Releases, voted 4 new
> > > > committers/PPMC members and has welcomed a new mentor. The community
> > also
> > > > continues to evangelize the project at universities, blog posts,
> public
> > > > webcasts as well as in multiple conferences.
> > > >
> > > > It's time to discuss the graduation of SystemML
> > > >
> > > > The SystemML PPMC graduation discussion can be found here:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > > org/msg01457.html
> > > >
> > > > If SyatemML were to graduate, the proposed board resolution is being
> > > > discussed/drafted at:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@....
> > > org/msg01728.html
> > > >
> > > > The optional maturity model is available at:
> > > > http://systemml.apache.org/maturit <
> > http://systemml.apache.org/maturity>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts, comments, questions?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks !
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Luciano Resende
> > > > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > > > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luciano Resende
> > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Bertrand Delacretaz
Hi John,

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...While there is
> no perfect release, we do expect all licensing issues to be cleared up by
> the time they graduate, and the current release indicates they are not...

Does this mean you are opposed to SystemML graduating at this point?

Luciano's reference to releases 0.12 and 0.13 passing without
problems, as well as (at least) 3 ASF members on the proposed PMC make
me confident about graduating.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

John D. Ament-2
Bertrand,

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:31 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > ...While there is
> > no perfect release, we do expect all licensing issues to be cleared up by
> > the time they graduate, and the current release indicates they are not...
>
> Does this mean you are opposed to SystemML graduating at this point?
>
>
I am.  However, I'll point out that the last podling in this situation,
Kylin, did re-roll a release to fix the remaining issues, and was able to
get me to vote a +1 on their graduation.  I do not plan to vote a -1 on
SystemML


> Luciano's reference to releases 0.12 and 0.13 passing without
> problems, as well as (at least) 3 ASF members on the proposed PMC make
> me confident about graduating.
>

I believe the reasons the last two releases passed cleanly has more to do
with who reviewed those releases and what they were looking for rather than
something new.  The LICENSE issues I noted have existed for 6 months, those
two releases are less than 6 months old.  Simply not enough time on my side
to review all releases.

Each of SystemML's releases have gotten better, it just concerns me that in
their last release they agreed to fix things in the next release - which is
conceivably outside the incubator.


>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Luciano Resende
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 3:31 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Bertrand,
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:31 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > ...While there is
> > > no perfect release, we do expect all licensing issues to be cleared up
> by
> > > the time they graduate, and the current release indicates they are
> not...
> >
> > Does this mean you are opposed to SystemML graduating at this point?
> >
> >
> I am.  However, I'll point out that the last podling in this situation,
> Kylin, did re-roll a release to fix the remaining issues, and was able to
> get me to vote a +1 on their graduation.  I do not plan to vote a -1 on
> SystemML
>
>
> > Luciano's reference to releases 0.12 and 0.13 passing without
> > problems, as well as (at least) 3 ASF members on the proposed PMC make
> > me confident about graduating.
> >
>
> I believe the reasons the last two releases passed cleanly has more to do
> with who reviewed those releases and what they were looking for rather than
> something new.  The LICENSE issues I noted have existed for 6 months, those
> two releases are less than 6 months old.  Simply not enough time on my side
> to review all releases.
>
> Each of SystemML's releases have gotten better, it just concerns me that in
> their last release they agreed to fix things in the next release - which is
> conceivably outside the incubator.
>
>

FYI, the issues you mentioned related to 0.14 release have been fixed in
master:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-systemml/commit/88e79bb341ea099e932cd85ace75389a5cb53ca7
https://github.com/apache/incubator-systemml/commit/8ad35c5b1a6958862dfab3d5f6232988ce57f36e




--
Luciano Resende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache SystemML podling graduation

Deron Eriksson
John and Luciano,

I have also updated master to remove the screen captures with a comment to
clear future screen capture usage in ASF releases with ASF legal.

https://github.com/apache/incubator-systemml/commit/5c9291b52bec46803e905b0c8cf82959e2a35e7c

Deron


On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 3:31 AM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Bertrand,
> >
> > On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:31 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John D. Ament <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > ...While there is
> > > > no perfect release, we do expect all licensing issues to be cleared
> up
> > by
> > > > the time they graduate, and the current release indicates they are
> > not...
> > >
> > > Does this mean you are opposed to SystemML graduating at this point?
> > >
> > >
> > I am.  However, I'll point out that the last podling in this situation,
> > Kylin, did re-roll a release to fix the remaining issues, and was able to
> > get me to vote a +1 on their graduation.  I do not plan to vote a -1 on
> > SystemML
> >
> >
> > > Luciano's reference to releases 0.12 and 0.13 passing without
> > > problems, as well as (at least) 3 ASF members on the proposed PMC make
> > > me confident about graduating.
> > >
> >
> > I believe the reasons the last two releases passed cleanly has more to do
> > with who reviewed those releases and what they were looking for rather
> than
> > something new.  The LICENSE issues I noted have existed for 6 months,
> those
> > two releases are less than 6 months old.  Simply not enough time on my
> side
> > to review all releases.
> >
> > Each of SystemML's releases have gotten better, it just concerns me that
> in
> > their last release they agreed to fix things in the next release - which
> is
> > conceivably outside the incubator.
> >
> >
>
> FYI, the issues you mentioned related to 0.14 release have been fixed in
> master:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-systemml/commit/
> 88e79bb341ea099e932cd85ace75389a5cb53ca7
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-systemml/commit/
> 8ad35c5b1a6958862dfab3d5f6232988ce57f36e
>
>
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>



--
Deron Eriksson
Spark Technology Center
http://www.spark.tc/