[DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

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[DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Chris Mattmann-4
Hi Board-Chat@,

CC/Incubator@

We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the ASF.
DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and Tika to
compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code auditing as
output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:

• Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of lines of
code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an example of running it across all of Apache
SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its output
for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/ 
• Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a dynamic fashion
• Get incremental status from code auditing
• Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your project

DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.

We have prepared a preliminary proposal here: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal

We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend. We propose
DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the Board agenda for August 2017
for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can potentially attract new contributors
both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any contributors from Creadur interested
in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus – we are using Wicket for one of
DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.

OK, thanks!

Cheers,
Chris






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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Chris Mattmann-4
Hi Everyone,

Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.

On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers, that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact. Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.

Thanks,
Chris


On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Board-Chat@,
>
> CC/Incubator@
>
> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the ASF.
> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and Tika to
> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code auditing as
> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
>
> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of lines of
> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an example of running it across all of Apache
> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its output
> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/ 
> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a dynamic fashion
> • Get incremental status from code auditing
> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your project
>
> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
>
> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
>
> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend. We propose
> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the Board agenda for August 2017
> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can potentially attract new contributors
> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any contributors from Creadur interested
> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus – we are using Wicket for one of
> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
>
> OK, thanks!
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Shane Curcuru-2
(note mixed private/public lists)

General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.

- Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
traditional general@incubator discussion period is?

- Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?

- It's awesome to see ™ included in a proposal (most people forget), but
they're mixed up.  Apache should be ® (when needed; when talking about
individual project names it's usually not needed) and most project names
should be ™.  So it would be either Apache® Rat™ or Apache Rat™.

Thanks for filling out the rest of the proposal.

- Shane

Chris Mattmann wrote on 8/10/17 1:59 AM:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.
>
> On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers, that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact. Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Board-Chat@,
>>
>> CC/Incubator@
>>
>> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the ASF.
>> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and Tika to
>> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code auditing as
>> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
>>
>> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of lines of
>> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an example of running it across all of Apache
>> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its output
>> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
>> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/ 
>> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a dynamic fashion
>> • Get incremental status from code auditing
>> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your project
>>
>> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
>>
>> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
>>
>> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend. We propose
>> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the Board agenda for August 2017
>> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can potentially attract new contributors
>> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any contributors from Creadur interested
>> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus – we are using Wicket for one of
>> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
>>
>> OK, thanks!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


--

- Shane
  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources

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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

John D. Ament-2
Just curious, but how do we know which marks the ASF actually owns?  Rat
isn't a TLP so I'm a bit surprised we own "Apache Rat", or is it simply
implicit?

John

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 7:46 AM Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (note mixed private/public lists)
>
> General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
>
> - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
> traditional general@incubator discussion period is?
>
> - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
> proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
> the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
>
> - It's awesome to see ™ included in a proposal (most people forget), but
> they're mixed up.  Apache should be ® (when needed; when talking about
> individual project names it's usually not needed) and most project names
> should be ™.  So it would be either Apache® Rat™ or Apache Rat™.
>
> Thanks for filling out the rest of the proposal.
>
> - Shane
>
> Chris Mattmann wrote on 8/10/17 1:59 AM:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.
> >
> > On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache
> account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers,
> that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact.
> Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them
> in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Hi Board-Chat@,
> >>
> >> CC/Incubator@
> >>
> >> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the
> ASF.
> >> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and
> Tika to
> >> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code
> auditing as
> >> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
> >>
> >> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of
> lines of
> >> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an
> example of running it across all of Apache
> >> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its
> output
> >> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
> >> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/
> >> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a
> dynamic fashion
> >> • Get incremental status from code auditing
> >> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your
> project
> >>
> >> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
> >>
> >> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
> >>
> >> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend.
> We propose
> >> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the
> Board agenda for August 2017
> >> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can
> potentially attract new contributors
> >> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any
> contributors from Creadur interested
> >> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus –
> we are using Wicket for one of
> >> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
> >>
> >> OK, thanks!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Shane Curcuru-2
John D. Ament wrote on 8/10/17 7:50 AM:
> Just curious, but how do we know which marks the ASF actually owns?  Rat
> isn't a TLP so I'm a bit surprised we own "Apache Rat", or is it simply
> implicit?

We claim that all Apache software *product* names are ASF trademarks:

  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/

In the US, once you are publicly offering a product using a consistent
name/logo, you can claim it as your trademark, no paperwork needed.  The
most important things are to have a consistent name, and to put the ™
symbol up or otherwise let the world know you claim it as a trademark.

Most projects are common law trademarks, which you can just claim as
your marks by doing so.  Some projects have registered (or applied-for)
trademarks, which give us far more rights but takes months of waiting
for the application process (and requires the PMC to ask).

As for "owns", that's a question that needs more clarification.  We
claim project names as our trademarks - so we own them.  But common law
trademarks have limited rights of control.  Trademarks only apply in
similar classes or kinds of goods, so saying "Apache Rat™" doesn't mean
that we could prevent everyone from having a software product called Rat
- only that they can't have a Rat software that would *be likely to
confuse users as to the source of the product*.

Does that make sense?

- Shane

>
> John
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 7:46 AM Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> (note mixed private/public lists)
>>
>> General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
>>
>> - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
>> traditional general@incubator discussion period is?
>>
>> - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
>> proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
>> the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
>>
>> - It's awesome to see ™ included in a proposal (most people forget), but
>> they're mixed up.  Apache should be ® (when needed; when talking about
>> individual project names it's usually not needed) and most project names
>> should be ™.  So it would be either Apache® Rat™ or Apache Rat™.
>>
>> Thanks for filling out the rest of the proposal.
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>> Chris Mattmann wrote on 8/10/17 1:59 AM:
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.
>>>
>>> On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache
>> account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers,
>> that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact.
>> Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them
>> in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi Board-Chat@,
>>>>
>>>> CC/Incubator@
>>>>
>>>> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the
>> ASF.
>>>> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and
>> Tika to
>>>> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code
>> auditing as
>>>> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
>>>>
>>>> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of
>> lines of
>>>> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an
>> example of running it across all of Apache
>>>> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its
>> output
>>>> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
>>>> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/
>>>> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a
>> dynamic fashion
>>>> • Get incremental status from code auditing
>>>> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your
>> project
>>>>
>>>> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
>>>>
>>>> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here:
>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
>>>>
>>>> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend.
>> We propose
>>>> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the
>> Board agenda for August 2017
>>>> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can
>> potentially attract new contributors
>>>> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any
>> contributors from Creadur interested
>>>> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus –
>> we are using Wicket for one of
>>>> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
>>>>
>>>> OK, thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> - Shane
>>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>>
>


--

- Shane
  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources

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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Greg Stein-4
In reply to this post by Shane Curcuru-2
On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (note mixed private/public lists)
>
> General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
>
> - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
> traditional general@incubator discussion period is?
>

Didn't realize there were rules about TLPs needing to drop by the
Incubator. Or that timelines were required.

Seems this is simply a TLP resolution proposed to the Board, and the
Incubator has zero input or concern on what DRAT is asking from the Board.


> - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
> proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
> the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
>

These are not the same communities. The Foundation should not "force" them
to work together.

They might logically make sense together, but the *communities* are
disjoint. There is zero reason for those communities to be lumped together.
In fact, it was the disjoint communities under an umbrella project that
spearheaded the Foundation's "blow up umbrellas" campaign a decade ago.

Communities define groupings. Not topic.

And does the DRAT acronym really impose on what the Creadur people are
doing with their Rat tool? Meh. That's a stretch.

>...

Cheers,
-g
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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Shane Curcuru-2
Greg Stein wrote on 8/10/17 8:44 AM:
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> (note mixed private/public lists)
...snip...

>> - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
>> proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
>> the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
>>
>
> These are not the same communities. The Foundation should not "force" them
> to work together.
>
> They might logically make sense together, but the *communities* are
> disjoint. There is zero reason for those communities to be lumped together.
> In fact, it was the disjoint communities under an umbrella project that
> spearheaded the Foundation's "blow up umbrellas" campaign a decade ago.
>
> Communities define groupings. Not topic.

You bring up the community issue, which I agree with you on.  I bring up
the *name* issue, which I imagine I disagree with you on.

> And does the DRAT acronym really impose on what the Creadur people are
> doing with their Rat tool? Meh. That's a stretch.

Given that Rat is used reasonably widely - perhaps not as a major tool,
but there's still good awareness of it - I thought it would be nice if
someone asked their community if they minded having their name subsumed
by a completely new project.

It seems rude to directly copy the name of another Apache project
without even asking.  And if these two projects were hosted at different
organizations, there would definitely be a likelihood of confusion.

--

- Shane
  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources

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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Chris Mattmann-4
In reply to this post by Shane Curcuru-2
Hi Shane,

On 8/10/17, 4:46 AM, "Shane Curcuru" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    (note mixed private/public lists)
   
    General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
   
    - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
    traditional general@incubator discussion period is?

Is 2 weeks faster than the traditional general@incubator discussion? I brought the
original thread up August 2nd, the Board meeting will be August 16th, so that’s  2 full
weeks. I was under the impression that’s an appropriate amount of discussion time.
The discussion has already led to folks from the Wicket community submitting and
getting a PR merged to upgrade Proteus [1], and to generally good will about the submission.
The Creadur folks and others also have discussed it [2] and I have sent them an email in reply.
   
    - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
    proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
    the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?

I don’t believe DRAT (which we’ve on the project also said is more like “D’oh”, or
“DRAT!” than it would be a Distributed creature or Creadur) completely subsumes
RAT at all. In fact, RAT itself is a loaded name, especially if you work in the CyberSec
community where RAT typically means Remote Access Tool (sharing two common words
with our Apache RAT, etc etc). And in CyberSec land a “RAT” is also kinda a “creature” because
it “infects” your computer, etc., etc., Regardless, I don’t think Apache DRAT completely subsumes
the name of Apache RAT at all for those reasons stated.
   
    - It's awesome to see ™ included in a proposal (most people forget), but
    they're mixed up.  Apache should be ® (when needed; when talking about
    individual project names it's usually not needed) and most project names
    should be ™.  So it would be either Apache® Rat™ or Apache Rat™.

Fixed.

    Thanks for filling out the rest of the proposal.

Anytime!

Chris

[1] https://github.com/chrismattmann/drat/pull/96 
[2] https://s.apache.org/sPWK 

   
    - Shane
   
    Chris Mattmann wrote on 8/10/17 1:59 AM:
    > Hi Everyone,
    >
    > Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.
    >
    > On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers, that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact. Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Chris
    >
    >
    > On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
    >> Hi Board-Chat@,
    >>
    >> CC/Incubator@
    >>
    >> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the ASF.
    >> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and Tika to
    >> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code auditing as
    >> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
    >>
    >> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of lines of
    >> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an example of running it across all of Apache
    >> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its output
    >> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
    >> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/ 
    >> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a dynamic fashion
    >> • Get incremental status from code auditing
    >> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your project
    >>
    >> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
    >>
    >> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
    >>
    >> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend. We propose
    >> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the Board agenda for August 2017
    >> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can potentially attract new contributors
    >> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any contributors from Creadur interested
    >> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus – we are using Wicket for one of
    >> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
    >>
    >> OK, thanks!
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> Chris
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
    >> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
    >>
    >>
    >
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
    > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
    >
   
   
    --
   
    - Shane
      https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
   



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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Chris Mattmann-4
In reply to this post by Greg Stein-4
Yeah, RE: the below (sorry for top post), this already came up in the Creadur community
and I encouraged them to contribute to DRAT and told them we’re welcoming. That said, I don’t
want Creadur to be an umbrella project, and frankly DRAT *uses* RAT, but is not a fundamental part of
Creadur and Vice-Versa. In 2 months, we could use NexB scancode [1]. Not saying we are
going to, but the point is DRAT adds tremendous features well beyond what RAT does (
full D3 interactive output, interactive cockpit for auditing, incremental progress, archival of
audit logs, search of audit logs, etc etc.)

So, while we acknowledge and are thankful to build on top of these great Apache projects,
I would expect those communities and contributors to contribute to DRAT and earn their
merit the same way folks would anywhere else.

It’s probably also worth noting that DRAT has already been presented at ApacheCon, see
this talk [2], and that talk led to this PR (from an Apache member) [3] to upgrade RAT,
etc etc.

Thanks,
Chris

[1] https://github.com/nexB/scancode-toolkit 
[2] https://apachecon2016.sched.com/event/6OJS/drat-an-unobtrusive-scalable-approach-to-large-scale-software-license-analysis-karanjeet-singh-university-of-southern-california
[3] https://github.com/chrismattmann/drat/pull/91 





On 8/10/17, 5:44 AM, "Greg Stein" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
   
    > (note mixed private/public lists)
    >
    > General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
    >
    > - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
    > traditional general@incubator discussion period is?
    >
   
    Didn't realize there were rules about TLPs needing to drop by the
    Incubator. Or that timelines were required.
   
    Seems this is simply a TLP resolution proposed to the Board, and the
    Incubator has zero input or concern on what DRAT is asking from the Board.
   
   
    > - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
    > proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
    > the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
    >
   
    These are not the same communities. The Foundation should not "force" them
    to work together.
   
    They might logically make sense together, but the *communities* are
    disjoint. There is zero reason for those communities to be lumped together.
    In fact, it was the disjoint communities under an umbrella project that
    spearheaded the Foundation's "blow up umbrellas" campaign a decade ago.
   
    Communities define groupings. Not topic.
   
    And does the DRAT acronym really impose on what the Creadur people are
    doing with their Rat tool? Meh. That's a stretch.
   
    >...
   
    Cheers,
    -g
   



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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Jim Jagielski
In reply to this post by Greg Stein-4
I'm also wondering with the whole debate is about...
It looks to me that Chris did everything all he was supposed
to do and did it correctly. So what's the big deal?

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Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Distributed Release Audit Tool (DRAT)

Julian Hyde-3
In reply to this post by Shane Curcuru-2
Shane,

Since products != projects, what is the process for getting a product
name onto that list[1]?

Avatica is a product and not a project; we conducted podling name
search a few months ago[2]; the Calcite PMC has made several releases
of "Apache Calcite Avatica" and plans at some point to start calling
the releases "Apache Avatica".

Julian

[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/

[2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-121

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 5:06 AM, Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John D. Ament wrote on 8/10/17 7:50 AM:
>> Just curious, but how do we know which marks the ASF actually owns?  Rat
>> isn't a TLP so I'm a bit surprised we own "Apache Rat", or is it simply
>> implicit?
>
> We claim that all Apache software *product* names are ASF trademarks:
>
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/list/
>
> In the US, once you are publicly offering a product using a consistent
> name/logo, you can claim it as your trademark, no paperwork needed.  The
> most important things are to have a consistent name, and to put the ™
> symbol up or otherwise let the world know you claim it as a trademark.
>
> Most projects are common law trademarks, which you can just claim as
> your marks by doing so.  Some projects have registered (or applied-for)
> trademarks, which give us far more rights but takes months of waiting
> for the application process (and requires the PMC to ask).
>
> As for "owns", that's a question that needs more clarification.  We
> claim project names as our trademarks - so we own them.  But common law
> trademarks have limited rights of control.  Trademarks only apply in
> similar classes or kinds of goods, so saying "Apache Rat™" doesn't mean
> that we could prevent everyone from having a software product called Rat
> - only that they can't have a Rat software that would *be likely to
> confuse users as to the source of the product*.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> - Shane
>
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 7:46 AM Shane Curcuru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> (note mixed private/public lists)
>>>
>>> General questions, since... we haven't actually had any discussion yet.
>>>
>>> - Is there a particular hurry to bring this to pTLP faster than the
>>> traditional general@incubator discussion period is?
>>>
>>> - Has the Apache Creadur project been consulted about the new project
>>> proposal, and in particular do they have any comments on using DRAT as
>>> the name, which subsumes their popular Rat name?
>>>
>>> - It's awesome to see ™ included in a proposal (most people forget), but
>>> they're mixed up.  Apache should be ® (when needed; when talking about
>>> individual project names it's usually not needed) and most project names
>>> should be ™.  So it would be either Apache® Rat™ or Apache Rat™.
>>>
>>> Thanks for filling out the rest of the proposal.
>>>
>>> - Shane
>>>
>>> Chris Mattmann wrote on 8/10/17 1:59 AM:
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Just as an FYI I've added a resolution to establish DRAT to the agenda.
>>>>
>>>> On item - 2 of the proposed PMC includes members without an Apache
>>> account. What to do in this situation? If they start only as committers,
>>> that's fine, but then we would create an account for them after the fact.
>>> Is this the desire? If so I will update the resolution and we can VOTE them
>>> in as PMC after the project is establish should the Board agree to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-08-02 10:35, Chris Mattmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Board-Chat@,
>>>>>
>>>>> CC/Incubator@
>>>>>
>>>>> We are proposing to bring DRAT (Distributed Release Audit Tool) to the
>>> ASF.
>>>>> DRAT is a parallelized version of Apache RAT that uses OODT, Solr and
>>> Tika to
>>>>> compute, visualize and interact with interesting statistics on code
>>> auditing as
>>>>> output by RAT and Tika. With DRAT you can:
>>>>>
>>>>> • Audit large code repositories (has been tested in 100s of M of
>>> lines of
>>>>> code, and 1000s of projects)  where RAT fails to complete – an
>>> example of running it across all of Apache
>>>>> SVN is here: http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratviz/ You can also see its
>>> output
>>>>> for a very large set of NSF funded geosciences code repositories here:
>>>>> http://drat.dyndns.org:8080/dratontoviz/
>>>>> • Visualize and interact with the output from RAT and Tika in a
>>> dynamic fashion
>>>>> • Get incremental status from code auditing
>>>>> • Audit individual code repos and integrate the results into your
>>> project
>>>>>
>>>>> DRAT was funded by DARPA, NASA, the NSF and other government entities.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have prepared a preliminary proposal here:
>>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/DRATProposal
>>>>>
>>>>> We are working on flushing it out more, should be done by this weekend.
>>> We propose
>>>>> DRAT to be a straight to TLP (pTLP). I will add a resolution into the
>>> Board agenda for August 2017
>>>>> for its consideration. I am CC’ing the Incubator so that we can
>>> potentially attract new contributors
>>>>> both seasoned and junior to the project. We also welcome any
>>> contributors from Creadur interested
>>>>> in learning more about OODT, Solr, Tika, etc. Also any Wicket gurus –
>>> we are using Wicket for one of
>>>>> DRAT’s key user interfaces, Proteus.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> - Shane
>>>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> - Shane
>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
>
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